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Date: 10/5/2001 8:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 7089
*grins, keeps mouth shut, sits down, gets popcorn, juniormints, & the lemon&honey spritz ready* cheers,  |
Date: 10/5/2001 8:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I find that very nice that a *christian* is useing that violation of *church and state* against the occult for once instead of those that are not christians trying to use it against us, so that we cant have prayer in schools, of the ten commandments. I think its only fair, they have taken our stuff out, and seeing as THEY say theres is a religion, then BY all means lets take their stuff out. Thanks freegirl for posting this, I appreciate it, but hold on to your hair as its going to get rough on ya. Hugs my amen sister.  |
Date: 10/5/2001 8:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 15319
Its not going to get rough by me..just another ignorant post by an arrogant person  |
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Date: 10/5/2001 8:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
LOL BUT THIS::Ki", the inner power of your body "" THE thing YOUR interested in is not ignorant thinking by an arrogant person. You can sit and believe that YOU can do this, but cant believe in the occult?? |
Date: 10/5/2001 9:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 5301
...what if your parents had been told that the "Hardy Boy" and "Nancy Drew" books that they read when they were younger only served to plant dangerous thoughts in the minds of the readers? Why was that girl and those boys always looking for "adventure"? Was their home life so dull and their parents so stiff that they needed excitement? I don't recall any warning in the books stating "Do not try this in your neighborhood". This must mean that the publishers were advocating teenage hooliganism. Ask the Harry Potter haters about that one. I've read a couple of my son's Harry Potter books and I find them to be merely fantasy with no evil overtones. I found them to be entertaining light reading. Amazing what you'll read when your supply of books runs out.  |
Date: 10/5/2001 9:09:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 27678
Tugger, thanks for getting the show stuff ready. Firstborn, glad to see you are on, as I just put this up. However, you know, as well as I, that this "separation of church and state" is a MYTH. This phrase is not in any of our legal documents concerning our nation. We were not to have GOD separate, only denominations. This article is for you. You have been on here, diligently trying to warn others of the dangers of adherance to "witchcraft." Personally, I don't care what others want to believe in. However, this is a Christian nation - and this was recognized, even by the Supreme Court, until the liberal movements of the sixties. Now, it seems that "freedom of religion" is only freedom from the Biblical God. Gonna get rough on me? I doubt it. I can hold my own, I HOPE. LOL. All in good fun.  |
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Date: 10/5/2001 9:11:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 27678
Angel, baby, ignorant thinking by an arrogant person? Strong words, but hey, I've definitely been called worse, like a FUNDAMENTALIST! You'll have to do better than that. What if's don't matter, Heckler, in the present world. Only reality. And a lot of parents hate this stuff, cause it goes against principles they are trying to instill in their kids, NO THANKS TO J.R. ROWLING. |
Date: 10/5/2001 9:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 14407
The world has gone mad.-Gandwere  |
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Date: 10/5/2001 9:13:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 27678
Gandwere, I agree. But it ain't due to this, or is it? |
Date: 10/5/2001 9:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 35808
hmm...thats intersting. but i dont see what the big deal it really, i mean its a book, well, its a few books, i mean, well im not sure exactly what i mean, lol, but i think, its not right that they ban books or whatever because that just takes away the freedom of choice right? and i dunna it just irks me, stupid ppl...*grrrr* |
Date: 10/5/2001 9:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 35160
im sorry , but its a crock , they r just books, some ppl,jeez.  |
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Date: 10/5/2001 9:22:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 27678
Crysa Rae, I am a big defender of FREEDOM, of all people, for all reasons. But to me, Harry represents a way for children to become accepting of the "pagan-Wiccan" lifestyle, without knowing it. And that is deception, to me. And has no merit. |
Date: 10/5/2001 9:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 20750
I have read every Harry Potter Book & I love them!!!! Soooooooooo does my 8 year old neice!!!  |
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Date: 10/5/2001 9:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 5301
...Ha! What a load! I can see the book burnings beginning. And I disagree with you on the "present world" thingie, Freegirl. The past is the future and the future the past. Just a different set of narrow-minded people trying to get noticed. |
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Date: 10/5/2001 9:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 20750
ps!!!!jumps on broom & flies away!! see ya!! |
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Date: 10/5/2001 9:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
please read this:: http://unsolvedmysteries.com/usm175010.html for all you hecklers. |
Date: 10/5/2001 9:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 277
As far as I am concerned they are fantasy/fiction books. If one mother doesn't want her kid to read the books, then she doesn't sign a permission slip and he doesn't read it. But, who is to say, he won't read it at a friends house? Wouldn't it be better if the mom and child read it for fun together. Then , the mom could explain her views on the witchcraft topics? SHe could also express her religious beliefs too at that point in time. In my opinion, if you tell a kid no about a book, curiousity is just going to make them want to read it more. In my opinion, she should just let him read it and talk to him about it like I said. At least their letting the parents decide for their own kids and not banning the books totally. My niece is 12 and she reads everything, including Harry Potter. She is a straight A student and believes in God. The kids aren't going to start doing spells because of a book.  |
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Date: 10/5/2001 9:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 277
The Wizard of Oz had spells (poppies made them sleep remember!) What about the fairy tales? Sleeping Beuty and the poison apple that made her sleep. Jack and the Beanstalk had 'magic" beans in it. Let's just ban and burn them all. Such evil! |
Date: 10/5/2001 9:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 19342
Germany 1939 Hitler makes a "Bonfire" with books considered subversive by the nazi party...sounds familiar?  |
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Date: 10/5/2001 9:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 277
Cinderella went to the ball in a pumpkin carriage pulled by mice turned into horses........ban that too. No more evil magic.....lol! |
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Date: 10/5/2001 9:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 277
Beauty and The Beast contained magic too. |
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Date: 10/5/2001 10:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I can NOT understand how some of you can be so blind, this is not about books that tell of majic, like all the disney films or the ones that hawk has mentioned, ITS ABOUT books that TEACH majic to children. Books that cause many to turn to satanism. I mean come on guys, learn to read whats going on in the world around you. |
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Date: 10/5/2001 10:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 277
Wait a minute...wasn't it Snow White with the poison apple that put her to sleep too? More evil magic. Look at all the adults that grew up on fairy tales as a child. Look at how many contained magic and witchcraft. We are all not into Wicca, some maybe, but books or stories told verbally did not influenece us to do spells. |
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Date: 10/5/2001 10:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 277
Let me get this straight......they teach magic to children....Well, remember Escape To Witch Mountain? Children doing magic...passed on through the family. That was a Disney film. I used to really like that movie. I never thought of practicing magic after seeing it. |
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Date: 10/5/2001 10:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 277
I suppose the tv show "Bewitched" was evil too because Samantha and AUnt Clara taught little Tabitha how to twitch her nose to do spells! |
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Date: 10/5/2001 10:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 19342
Do you know what happens if you try to use one of those spells from the book? ABSOLUTLLY NOTHING! Wanna know why? ITS A BOOK! thats it , no more no less! Mama mia! |
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Date: 10/5/2001 11:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 277
We're not talking about the Satanic Bible here, just Harry Potter. |
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Date: 10/5/2001 11:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Yes freegirl:: I know about the myth of seperation of church and state and I agree with you 100% Hawk, Hawk Hawk, it is just as bad, why do you constantly defend the occult?? OH i know, I remember some of the stuff your husband wrote. |
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Date: 10/5/2001 11:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
goodnight for tonight. |
Date: 10/5/2001 11:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 30743
What I find amazing is the absolute defense these books are recieving. Do you know, I think more people come out to defend this book than they do the Bible? I just find it ironic, really. Considering that these books are fiction, not based at all in reality, yet people still defend them as if Harry Potter were real. It is just a book. You read it, you don't. Unless you want to go back on your sworn word that it is fiction and nothing else and say... What? The only book that I would stand and defend, lose my life for, be tortured for, is the Bible. So tell me, why the heated defense for a work of fiction? Why the contreversy if these books are to you just a pleasing read? I haven't read the books, nor will I. I simply desire to know why so many people defend it as if Harry Potter were really alive and breathing today. Hmmmm...  |
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Date: 10/5/2001 11:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 19342
You are missing the point! Its not the book! Its the notion that kids are being brain washed by satanists , who in turn are writing childrens books! And bla,bla,bla. |
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Date: 10/5/2001 11:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 30743
But at the root, and there is always a root, is the book... |
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Date: 10/5/2001 11:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 19342
If not the book , the rock music is from Satan or who knows Pokemon ,matchbox cars,cheerios,bubble gum! Are we allowed to pass gas? Such an offensive smell , maybe is from the devil too? |
Date: 10/6/2001 12:03:00 AM
From Authorid: 31368
I just want to say, that no one should go to a school and ask a book to be pulled, purely on speculation. I'm willing to bet that this woman didn't read the book, and I'm willing to bet that most of the people complaining about it haven't read it. They are basing their complaints, on the fact that the main character is a Wizard and they ASSUME that the book teaches about the occult. I have done alot of research on the occult, and I have read the Harry Potter books, and I can tell you the only thing they have in common is the word WITCH. What about The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe? This book has been in schools for years, and is considered a classic. I don't think we are defending a book persay. We are defending our children's right to open their mind and imagination with a book. My stepson sat in front of a television, computer, and video games, nonstop, before these books came into his life. He has read all of them and has discovered the joy of reading. He has a new book everytime I see him. Harry Potter books have opened up the world of books to him, and the books are doing this for children all over the world. It's a proven fact that a child that reads regularly, does better in school, has a longer attention span, and just does better in general. I think this is what we a defending. Our childrens right to have their minds open to the world of imagination. It just really boggles my mind, that so many books in history have dealt with the same subject matter, and it hasn't turned our youth to paganism yet. So what's the big deal. I give my child enough credit, to know that they aren't going to be able to fly on a broomstick, of say a latin word and have an object fly into his hand. He knows this is make believe as well as he knows the power rangers are make believe. I'm done now. I have done this enough to know that neither side is going to change their minds. So I say, if a person doesn't want their child to read the book then don't sign the permission slip. But these people have no right to tell my child they can't read it. The book is not about religion, it is not about Wicca, it's about a made up place with made up magic. If the book, (like the bible) went into detail, describing the religion, and guidelines then this woman would have a case, but it doesn't. Like I said before. there are no similarities between this book and the wiccan religion. ***Shelly***  |
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Date: 10/6/2001 12:04:00 AM
From Authorid: 30743
ROTFLMAO, I knew I shouldn't have commented on this one... *bops self in head with Nanner* LOL, okay, well, okay, I see satan in things because some things truly are evil. I am not even talking about the book anymore, I have not read it so I will say nothing about it, but I do believe that everything we do, everything we come into contact with affects our lives. Some in small ways, some in big ways. But it does affect us. Things affect us. They have a way of doing that, don't they? LOL Fact or fantasy, doesn't matter, the lines get blurred sometimes, and that is just reality. LOL Love and Big Monkey Hugs!!! |
Date: 10/6/2001 12:37:00 AM
From Authorid: 31275
Oh...man more Harry Potter debates....*walks away tired* You guys have fun! :)PAI  |
Date: 10/6/2001 3:25:00 AM
From Authorid: 30229
Okay, Okay, I will let my ignorance show here, but I have a couple pennies here... Can that buy MY two cents worth??? lol... I do NOT condone anything of a satanic subject matter... In fact, I have weird feelings when around something that honors Satanic practices, including magic and spell castings... HERE is my ignorance, I have NEVER read the Potter books, and after seeing all this, you can bet your sweet bippy that I never will!!! Like Monkeyluvr, there is ONLY ONE BOOK that I would defend with my life and that is God's own words, the Bible!!! And to shorten my reply, I will have to also say, BRAVO!!! to Agent Smith, because he summed it up really well!! I would never tolerate my child being taught anything to do with Satanic teachings, spell casting, magic, evil spirits, or anything along those lines... I would take them out of school and home school first... I do NOT want anything to do with the practices of Satan... and that is MY opinion, Thanks for allowing me to say it, even though it is a little off the subject of the Potter books... :)  |
Date: 10/6/2001 7:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 19220
It's a book. Yep sure is, nothing more. Hey Tugger, can I have some junior mints please?  |
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Date: 10/6/2001 10:24:00 AM
From Authorid: 277
I am not defending the occult, because the Harry Potter books are not Satanic. Once again, my husband is not a Satanist or involved in an occult. He wrote posts dealing with Satan to show that freedom of speech and religion should be able to be expressed. Thank you for the dig at my husband though. LOL! It shows that you are human and not walking around with the halo on your head as you want everyone to see you as. |
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Date: 10/6/2001 10:46:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
I think that should have applied to prayer in school::shelly::::: It shouldnt have been pulled out and it is.REading is a good thing, WHAT you read is another thing. Let take your hubby, for instance if you have one, I dont know, but lets say he didnt read, didnt LIKE to read, but suddenly HE dicides to read anton levey satanic bible, WELL good for him, HE is using his imagination, he IS reading a book and from that Book he starts to read other, many others, oH WOW a good thing, HE IS LOVING TO READ. And then after reading all these books on satanism, the occult, how to cast spells, and decideds one day, that he wants more POWER and figures out the way he can get this power is from a blood sacrafice. WOW, He thinks, I'll just sacrafice the whole dang family. wHAT WOULD you think of his imagination then??? Would It have been a good thing that HE read all those books?? What we read goes into our soul, take root and is planted and CAN over take our own good reasoning. Just look in the news, look over police reports about families that have been killed in this matter, or the neighbors of these PEOPLE that used their imagination to read these, *fiction* yea right, books. I just read a comment on the other post from a witch, that tells me that the books are "spiritually acurate** so no, even had she not said that, the books are not JUST harmless. |
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Date: 10/6/2001 11:35:00 AM
From Authorid: 35808
so then its your responisbility to teache them the difference of fantasy and reality... |
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Date: 10/6/2001 12:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
CRYSA RAY:: Yes, it is our responsibility, when our children are little, I did that to my children, my children are now grown and teach it to their children. BUT the fact of the matter is that are so many * LATCH KEY KIDS* in this nation today, that have no love from parents let alone guidence, that they have to learn about it somewhere. They is they drop by here can learn it here. OR do you want to run around the world and find all these *latch key kids* and fix it all your self. NOT all kids are fortuneate to have parents that give a damn. |
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Date: 10/6/2001 2:56:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 27678
Thanks for all your replies. Firstborn, you seem to be handling this debate well. Thanks. My take is that this book is not fantasy in the sense that it contains actual spells used by Wiccans, therefore, it is almost like a religious manual, and nothing I feel that most kids should be led astray into. It's like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Just my opinion. |
Date: 10/6/2001 5:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 10146
Thank you Jesus. "We" may loose a battle now and then, But You've already Won the WAR! Victory belongs only to You! My Love for Jesus Name.  |
Date: 10/6/2001 7:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 32086
...and then the goannas came...  |
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Date: 10/6/2001 7:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Amen Haddam and FreeGirl, sorry I didnt mean to take over your post. |
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Date: 10/6/2001 10:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 31368
Deb, I completely agree, there are children (alot of them) who have no supervision most of the time. I also agree that if a child reads these books, their parents should discuss it with them, and let them know what is real and what is not. Those children whose parents aren't willing to discuss it with them are probably not prepared to understand the book. But I believe this about any book, any tv show, and video game, etc... Parents should be there to teach them what is right and what is wrong. Perhaps that is why my stepson, understands that these books are fictional and for imagination purposes. I discuss them with him. If a parent choses that they don't want their child to read these books then I say more power to them. My only problem is when I see people who haven't read the book, try to take it away from my children, when it has done wonders for them. I am not accusing you of this, but there are some people that would like to see the book out of publication and out of sight for all children, not just their own. I don't think they should feel they have the right to say what I should let my children read. I do a great job raising my children, the way I see fit. These people have no place in my life, and they have no place in my descisions. I also want to make the point again, in general, that these books DO NOT have spells in them. The extent of the so called spells in this book are one word lating phrases. Such as making a broom stick fly, (in the book) is as simple as saying the word ascend in latin. Pardon me if I'm wrong, but I have never heard of a spell that consists, of a single word. Geez we'd all be flying around on broom sticks if this were the case. So the people saying the book teaches spells are unjustified in their assumption. Which could be ratified if they took the time to stop assuming and read the book. Even if they feel the book goes against what they believe. In fact, if they really feel the books are such a hazard, shouldn't they be reading them so they know the enemy? Just a thought, but I honestly think a person, should not "judge a book by it's cover" They can't argue against something, if they don't know the thing they are arguing about. And if these people chose to let others do their thinking for them, they are going to be continually proven wrong. And taking quotes from the book, out of context, is only going to hinder their cause. Because, any quote they can find in the book, that sounds remotely evil, can be shown, (in full context) to be exactly the opposite. SO yes I agree, if you don't have time to discuss a book with your child, don't let them read it, but I DO have the time, and no on should feel they have the right to take away MY rights. That is my stand. ***Shelly*** |
Date: 10/7/2001 7:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 23866
You know, when I was six, I saw the Wizard of Oz. Man, when I saw Glenda, the Good Witch, in that huge pink dress, and sparkly shoes I thought "I want to be a witch too!" And you know what? Fifteen years later I'm still a Christian. I never experimented with the occult, never tried magic, but I did cultivate an active imagination. And that's what these books do. They're a nice read about a nice kid who is just trying to find his place in school. The "spells" in the book just consist of some garbled word and a tap of a wand.("Riddikulus!" Is one of them and makes a boggart turn into something silly so you can conquer your fear of them.) Anyone who has read at least one of the books will see that that magic takes a backseat to the friendship of the characters, problemsolving, and loyalty to what is "good" In my school, we had Dean Koontz and Stephen King sharing shelfspace with The Bible, the Koran, and other religious works, as well as To Kill a Mockingbird, Huckelberry Finn, Lord of the Flies and all the other "banned" books and no parents had hissyfits. If you're going to have the Bible in the library, which is perfectly fine with me IMO, then you're going to have to accept that there will be others there that you don't like. I think the blame is on the wrong people. If your child turns to witchcraft, or even satanism, maye it's not the book's fault. Maybe it's just bad parenting.  |
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Date: 10/7/2001 8:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Shelly:: I'm not trying to take anyones rights away, I'm not for book banning, I'm for people getting their heads out of their --- and taking responsibility. I think the thing that warps my mind the most is when someone says, I'm christian and find these books to be alright. Do they forget what God teaches or did they not know in the first place??? |
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Date: 10/7/2001 10:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 31368
I know that's not your intention Deb. My problem is with the people who are. I haven't seen any on this site, but they are out there. I do believe in a god, but my beliefs are not the same as yours, and do not follow the same guidelines as yours. I have watched many debates about your religion, and I can see where you are coming from, and I can respect that. And I know you respect me for having my own beliefs. I know you're not targeting this at people like myself, without standard Christian beliefs. I guess, the only thing bothering me about these posts, is that I have read the books, and I honestly do not find anything slightly occult like in them. I guess it frustrates me when people say these things about a book they obviously haven't read. I have seen many people on this site get annoyed, when they are defending the bible, because they know the person bashing it hasn't read it. I have heard them say, "you are taking that out of context, if you read the entire passage you will see the meaning behind it." Do you see what I'm saying? They are doing the same thing to this book, that people who have never read the bible do to it. I have not read the bible in it's entirety, so I do not debate it. I ask questions about it, but cannot understand the whole thing because I have not read it. I can not pretend to understand a book without having read it. I do plan on reading it, so I will be better prepared for discussions of this nature. I'm sure when I do I will understand your position even better. *hugs* ***Shelly*** |
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Date: 10/7/2001 5:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Shelly, I do understand where your coming from. You forget that I have not always been a believer in the Lord Jesus. Had I read harry potter 14-15 years ago, I would probably be saying what you and others are saying now. But after reading about the things in the bible, the things I was seeking out because of spirits I had been seeing since i was 8 years old, and I learned even more how much the spirit realm does indeed play a part in our very lives, then I felt then as I do now, that I needed to warn people, to offer experience that I have had in these types of situations. I'm getting quiet use to being harrassed about this, especially from the *younger* ones on here that have no clue what *real life* is all about let alone spiritual life that is also with us. I've dealt with children and adults coming out of satanism, the occult, those that have dealt with crystals, and astro projection, Had I NOT had experience with this, then yes, I would keep my mouth shut. I would have loved for all those kids that have been so mouthy here the past few weeks with me and calling me everything but a white women, to have lived with me and those kids that came out of satanism and the occult. I do believe they would have a change of mind. |
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Date: 10/7/2001 8:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 15319
Free Girl, plain and simple? Get a life. You two FirstBorn. You two make me sick with your postings and comments. |
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Date: 10/7/2001 9:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
There is a cure for that Dark Angel:: DONT READ THEM. |
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Date: 10/7/2001 11:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 27308
I think the books are awsome |
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Date: 10/8/2001 10:43:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 27678
Thanks for all your comments - positive and negative. It's amazing to me how tolerance is what we are to have towards each other, but in reality, freedom is only for a selected few, determined by WHO IS IN POWER, at the time. I haven't read any Harry Potter, but I have read some information about them and one of my kids has read one of them, and was not impressed. My kids realize what the Bible says about witchcraft and sorcery and they have learned to REPEL such undertakings. Other children are not so fortunate as to be taught about the Bible. This all changed in l963 with the teaching of the Bible taken out of schools after over 200 years of such teaching maintained. And 40 years later, here we are. Are we better off as a society? I hardly think so. I still maintain this series of books could be dangerous to a child's mental images relating to sorcery and witchcraft and be led into such nonsense by adults who practice it. Religious teachings belong to the parents, not to teachers or others who would like to influence kids with their garbage beliefs that have no substance or basis to them. And Dark Angel - I have a life, thank you very much. |
| Date: 10/8/2001 4:32:00 PM From Authorid: 44371 I feel sorry for the children of you fanatics.you shove everything down their throats so they can grow up and be a fanatic just like mommy... |
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Date: 10/8/2001 7:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 15319
*Prays* Dear God please bring infertility upon those who should not reproduce. |
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Date: 10/8/2001 9:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
JoshDawg and Dark Angel, ask my kids if they are sorry I taught them about the Bible and spiritual warfare? One of them happens to be right here on usm he goes under the name of DEMON SLAYER. ASK HIM what HE thinks of the LORD JESUS. HES 21, he can answer for himself. So dark Angel, its too late, I've had my four kids and now I have four grandkids, and more will soon be on the way, so your half hearted attempt at prayer has already failed. |
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Date: 10/9/2001 5:25:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 27678
Dark Angel, obviously your religious beliefs don't entail not wishing ill on your neighbor. Unfortunate, cause what goes around, comes around, and that ain't just karma. Free Girl |
Date: 10/19/2001 9:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 45158
i think it shouldnt be banned! i mean if we want to read what we want to read then we should read what we read, that sounds funny, o well, lol  |
Date: 10/19/2001 10:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Shelly and especially Lady Almathea SPEAKS VERY WELL regarding the matter, but it seems as though no one is paying attention.  |
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