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Date: 12/9/2001 8:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 5353
I don't know... I've got mixed feelings about that. Granted, it does impose some sort of higher being on the American public, but it doesn't state specifically. It doesn't say "In Jahoviah we trust" or "In Pan we trust" "GOD" is generic enough to only leave out one minority, athiests.  |
Date: 12/9/2001 8:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 23731
I still say to keep church and state seperated. god shoulb be kept in the church as well as the homes of thous who worship god or what ever you worship. It needs to stay out of schools, for EVERONE DOES NOT WORSHIP THE SAME GOD. the same goes for saying the pledge of alegints (SP), this should not be in schools either.  |
Date: 12/9/2001 9:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 19382
I hav no problem with people being abe to speak of/discuss God. So long as Wiccans and Pagans may speak of the Goddess, Bhudists of Bhudda, and so on and so forth - freely and without fear of 'retribution' from people of other beleifs. But if they may not, then christians may not either. I hear people say that the USA is a "christian country". Well it isn't, it is very multicultural, with various nationalities and beleifs systems. You should be proud of that, instead of saying your only a 'chrisitan nation' (I'm not saying you do Firstborn, but alot of Americans do)  |
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Date: 12/9/2001 9:13:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
silverhour: thanks for your reply] TEF::MANY people talk about chruch and state, but they misunderstand what it really says. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." So I wish someone would tell me where it says anything about seperation of church and state in that quote! All I see is that CONGRESS can't pass a law establishing an official STATE religion, nor can they stop people from excercising their right to worship in whatever manner the people choose. ShipsPagan: from what I read in the history books while I was in school **many many moons ago** we were taught at that time that this nation was founded on a christian God. The *updated* history books no longer, or at least many do not, support this any longer.  |
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Date: 12/9/2001 9:15:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
well guys, I'm tired, I'm fixing to go to bed, see you while i have coffee in the morning. Then I have to go to work. |
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Date: 12/9/2001 9:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 28125
Defintely agree that it is time for us to clarify the situation and let God be part of schools again ...Love and Hugs...ICL>>>PA  |
Date: 12/9/2001 9:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 29928
Here hee FB! Great post an I agree 100% Sleep well my friend,  |
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Date: 12/9/2001 9:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 29928
Here here FB! Great post and I agree 100% Sleep well my friend, |
Date: 12/9/2001 10:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
Here's something to think about: "Separation of Church and State" is always brought up in debates such as this. Now, WHAT is really being separated --state sponsored religion OR freedom of religion which is free from government interference???  |
Date: 12/9/2001 10:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 37900
America survives as a multicultural society because of the Founding Fathers' conviction that government not create a state religion. Having "In God We Trust" on our money, or hanging from the walls of our schools, hardly qualifes as "state-sponsored religion." On the other hand, it is foolish to deny the place God has been given in our history. Those who worship other deities have that freedom in America, but only because the God of the Bible was given pre-eminence in the early days of colonization. Alfrowi.  |
Date: 12/9/2001 11:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 34078
What? Nobody has posted "In God We Trust" all others pay cash, yet.  |
Date: 12/9/2001 11:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 17014
I agree with Ship Pagan. This great country should be known for its vast multicultural unity and diversity.  |
Date: 12/10/2001 4:36:00 AM
From Authorid: 10722
Sounds like a plan to me, after all, the motto has been in the united states longer than the diversity of other religions has.  |
Date: 12/10/2001 5:03:00 AM
From Authorid: 20847
...and in cars we rust.  |
Date: 12/10/2001 6:04:00 AM
From Authorid: 42104
ok posting our motto is one thing even though it does use God. however, going off other debates, that should be the only thing up in public buildings. If people want to bring back children saying the pledge ok but use the original, that way there will be not "praying" debates.  |
Date: 12/10/2001 6:07:00 AM
From Authorid: 27414
Just look how differences of beliefs is handled here. Lots of people can get bent out of shape. Best to keep it out of schools. Let the parents decide what religion, if any, that their kids should follow...jbdoe  |
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Date: 12/10/2001 6:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 23731
I agree with you jbdoe 100%. |
Date: 12/10/2001 6:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
That "in God we trust" part was inserted during the McCarthy Era, when nobody dared to to be seen opposing anything religious. IF god is God, you can't erase Him by removing "in God we trust", anymore than you need to promote him by advertising on a silly marquee sign, a billboard, or a school banner. IF HE ISN'T, then we have no business advertising him as if he is. I feel that there should be absolutely NO advertising, NO placards, banners, etc, whatsoever, in public schools. There is such a HUGE DIVERSITY of religions and beliefs today, vastly different from when this country was just getting started, and to loudly proclaim ONE faith, ONE god, over all the the others; excluding SOME others, is WRONG. RELIGIONS DO NOT BELONG IN SCHOOLS, period.  |
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Date: 12/10/2001 7:22:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Princess Amy: I agree with you. Thanks PammieRose. *** Paranoid, I know people really think seperation of church and state means keep them apart, this is not what it means. Alfrowi: Your right, others that worship other deities have that freedom only because God of the Bible was given pre-eminence. |
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Date: 12/10/2001 7:25:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Kelsey: thanks for stopping by Astral Traveler:: lol Anomally X:: Sounds good to me also Kaaos:: YEP in CARS we RUST. Ralph:: thanks for stopping by. |
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Date: 12/10/2001 7:27:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
JBDOE;; TEF;; THINKER;; I think this man that I'm fixing to quote, said it much better than I could:::Ehardt says that, before passage, the American Civil Liberties Union issued a press release denouncing the bill, claiming that the motto “In God We Trust” implies the legislature’s endorsement of Christianity. But Ehardt said that most people consider the motto more as a patriotic symbol than as a religious one. He added that, since the use of “God” in the motto can refer to the god of any religion, it is not an endorsement of Christianity. |
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Date: 12/10/2001 7:30:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Sorry about the numbers, but his response was so good that I copy and pasted it. See people get all in an up roar when the word GOD is mentioned. BUT God can apply to any religion. To me it would be God of the Bible, To a wiccan it may be part of the God and Goddess thing, to ANY group it may represent the God they believe in. Its not just a christian God or Idea here. So it should not, "harm none" |
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Date: 12/10/2001 8:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 42104
one problem I do see however, is that God is spelled with a capital g and hence that (at least the way I was taught in school) signified the christian God. we learned this in greek mythology when I asked the "the god, Zues" was with a lower g. Now I'm not sure that that is 100% accurate but that is my source of info. |
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Date: 12/10/2001 8:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 23731
If there is going to be "in god we trust" than every religion should be represented by having the saying repeted with what ever they call there god. |
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Date: 12/10/2001 8:27:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Ralph I use big G for my God but if you notice so does the wiccans for their God. TEF: SURE then they wouldnt need wall paper. |
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Date: 12/10/2001 10:01:00 AM
From Authorid: 23731
to bad. they wont have to waste money buying wallpaper than. |
Date: 12/10/2001 10:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 17525
hey Deb. As the article stated, the motto is only 46 years old. That speaks loudly as to the general attitude of the country for the previous 179 years before the motto was adopted. You know as well as i do that in the last 40 years, many things have happened which,fundamentally, go against what the founding fathers had intended. Whether we put the word "God" on anything does not indicate that it is christian, muslim, judaic, or for that matter gnostic. Everyone is free to dfeinf God in their own terms. As long as they don't start saying "In the Bible we Trust" Then we're in deep doo-doo. Just my opinion. Peace,  |
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Date: 12/10/2001 10:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
To those of you who think our country was NOT founded on Christian principles: What phrase is on the liberty bell, and where did it come from? What are the phrases which precede our "rights" as delineanated in the "Bill of Rights"??? Also, I am curious as to WHY is this such a big deal to begin with? Simply because a statement is on a plaque, or on a billboard, or on our MONEY does NOT mean that anyone has to believe it... or follow it... or do anything ELSE with it. What's the big deal? "In God We Trust" is about as GENERIC a statement about any god as I can think of. |
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Date: 12/10/2001 10:48:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
LOL Osiris! I would actually enjoy seeing that, but it would offend too many people and would also be a sign of government interference in the "religious" realm... which is one thing the founding fathers did NOT want to happen. |
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Date: 12/10/2001 11:45:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Osiris, hugs buddy. I see nothing wrong with in God we trust. Anyone can get a joy out of it, as each has their own religion. paranoid: your right. |
Date: 12/10/2001 12:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 27678
FB, I think you know what I'ma gonna say, my dear. Of course, people should recognize and realize that the forefathers felt that the CHRISTIAN GOD of the Old and New Testament was the GOD who gave them the rights they cherished so much because of persecution that they had suffered in England and elsewhere due to denominational control. However, they felt that religious freedom was important, after all, many of them has suffered persecution because they sought the Protestant tenet of biblical authority vs. papal authority, and knew that FREEDOM to worship was freedom to live happily. I see nothing wrong with recognizing that the founding of the country was based, in part, and this is undeniable, on the right to worship the God of the Holy Bible, free and without the constraints of the denominations of the day. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging our history and giving credit, as Firstborn stated on another post, where credit is due. Religious freedom and the ability to live happily, means to come to some sort of understanding regarding the absolutism of right and wrong and rejecting this theory of relativism in morals, as we can clearly see, that the freedom to do wrong, has resulted in societal ills that may never leave us. I believe it is up to those who wish love, peace and joy, for real, to acknowledge the source of our freedoms, and fight to keep the real American spirit alive, and that is love for one another. Free Girl  |
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Date: 12/10/2001 11:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 34078
Re: But Ehardt said that most people consider the motto more as a patriotic symbol than as a religious one. --> That's B.S. God is not a patriotic symbol. It has nothing to do with patriotism at all! It's about controlling others and that is wrong so help me god. |
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Date: 12/10/2001 11:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 34078
FirstBorn; here's a tip to get rid of those pesky nasty numbers that show up during cutting and pasting quotes. First cut and paste to an ASCII text editor; ie Notepad. |
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Date: 12/11/2001 7:41:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
AMEN FREEGIRL. Well said. AStral Traveler: GOD is a patriotic symbol, read your bible and you will find this to be true. Oh and I did cut and paste it to note pad, but once in a while even notepad fails me. Heck when first came on usm I didnt know how to cut and paste really well, matter of fact not at all, then I learned and I was using word pad and microsoft word and boy was I getting the number took forever whenI cut and pasted to get rid of them, thank God for the update on our posts. Then someone told me about notepad, and I really dont know why some still do this. |
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Date: 12/11/2001 10:30:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
Astral Traveller, I believe that one one time you were correct about religion solely(?) being about power to control the masses. And even today SOME churches/faiths use it for that purpose. But true followers of Christ do NOT use their "religion" for that purpose. Power-hungry men do. |
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Date: 12/11/2001 12:44:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
well said paranoid |
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Date: 12/11/2001 12:44:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
well said paranoid |
Date: 1/19/2002 6:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 13974
I know this is an old debate that will most likely not be read, BUT this nation was NOT founded as a christian nation. MAny of those forefathers you are speaking of were not christians or often even religious. That is a misconception. Many were diests, athiests, and agnostics. We even had a signifigant Jewish population at the time.  |
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Date: 1/19/2002 8:35:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
HI, was wondering why you posted that about founding fathers, LOL, now I know. The early history books that had quotes from the founding fathers have been so changed over the years to make them into NON christians or God fearing men that they certainly are not the same history books that I read as a child or what I was taught as a child. This is just one more step in desensitizing the american people to believe that everything is OK and nothing is bad, a kind of If it feels good do it kind of thing. Even the early school books back when this country was founded, were all based on God. A teacher wouldnt be hired unless she believe in God and was a christian. Check out some of the old history text books instead of all the modern revised additions. |
Date: 1/19/2002 9:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Hi Phydeux..This nation was established on the belief in God..People were looking for freedom of religion,not freedom from religion as many are looking for nowdays..A religion then was considered to be the service and worship of God,not an institutionalized system of beliefs and practices,wherein anything is called a religion.Even in my younger days,if one did not believe God existed,then he was an atheist..There were only two sides to the issue..  |
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Date: 1/20/2002 10:40:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Amen rusure. |
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Date: 1/20/2002 1:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 13974
Firstborn, don't you think it is possible that the quote in old text books were only Christian based ones as a bias, and that it is possible they weren't all christians. In a more diverse society, maybe we are trying to show that they weren't as bias as portrayed in the past. And our history books are showing a bit more of the true nature of history? You have to admit, the residual effects of Mcartyism lasted quite a while in this country. |
Date: 1/20/2002 1:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 15621
Tell you what, I dont have much to say about the post but...when it comes to our money and the words and drawing found thereon.....its not christian at all.....  |
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Date: 1/20/2002 2:33:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Phydeux: No, I dont think so. sixgun. No the drawings on the money and the words are not christian. |
Date: 5/11/2003 10:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 1225
The constitution does not forbid religion, it doesn't mention separation of church and state. It merely says that congress can't pass any laws establishing a state faith.  |
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Date: 5/13/2003 12:04:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Your right, where ya been? |
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