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Date: 4/1/2002 9:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 28125
Amen...I am in agreement with you...I have been a Christian for 13 years...Jesus Christ is Alive and Coming Back for His People...God Bless You too...Love and Hugs...ICL~*~*~*~  |
| Date: 4/1/2002 9:41:00 PM From Authorid: 52320 I believe it's not. Belief is subjective. |
| Date: 4/1/2002 9:44:00 PM From Authorid: 50100 Amen. Where do some of these Godless kids come from. I feel bad for them. |
Date: 4/1/2002 9:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
Well...I commend you for your faith...and there was a similar post here challenge USMers to try and refute the KJV Bible. I posted a link to a website that had (amongst other things) over 200 contradictions in the KJV...and these were NOT misinterpretations or out of context verses either...they were contradictions in dates, names and places...but that was dismissed as a Bible-Hater site...so go figure. Other USMers also posted contradictions and these were dismissed with the 'out of context' thing too...seems when some analyse the Bible they choose to analyse with their own set of rules. I guess you have to be secure in what you believe...and it appears you are...so I commend you for that. Peace and God Bless,  |
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Date: 4/1/2002 9:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 28125
Agent has good points...I agree...Love and Hugs...ICL~*~*~*~ |
Date: 4/1/2002 9:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 17204
First, in response to the post, I believe in God however I question things A LOT. Im not evry strong in my faith because of tihs. Im the kind who has to see to believe which is the exact opposite of faith. Id pick science over faith too...as sad as that may seem. and too 50100, Godless kids? What? The way you word that makes it seem so negative..as if its a terrible thing because they dont AGREE with your beliefes... What makes YOU all RIGHT? Has it ever crossed any christians mind that just maybe there is that slight possibilty that they are wrong? What makes your faith better and more right than all the other religions out there?  |
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Date: 4/1/2002 9:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
By the way...heres the link if ya wanna have a crack at it: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contradictions.html |
Date: 4/1/2002 9:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 15033
If you continue to read your bible you will see that Satan was cast out of heaven thousands upon thousands of years before Adam and Eve were created. Where did he fall to? One place was Earth. He was master of many advanced civilizations. One was on Mars that we know of so far. But they and earth has been destroyed before God created the garden and all other life at that time. Read this information: http://www.mt.net/~watcher/stones.html  |
Date: 4/1/2002 10:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 19382
The Bible is the word of Man. It was written by man. And in Latin to boot. I am sure it was "re-written" in the Darl/Middle Ages from it original "closer to the real word" version, and is now a shadow of it's former truer self. Which is a pity, I'd probably have more faith in chrsitianity and the bible if the Dark and Middle Ages never occured, along with all its attrocities and suppression.  |
Date: 4/1/2002 10:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Yeshmeshuan, I agree with you and I"m looking forward to the question asked of you.  |
Date: 4/1/2002 10:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 50435
How can you perfect faith? You believe or you don't. You read, you learn, you decide, and you believe or you don't. I don't even know where to start. People read their religious texts, and "interpret" them. This is pretty much the same as taking a song with ambiguous lyrics and trying to MAKE THEM MEAN WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO MEAN. That's why you have so many factions within one faith. They twist meanings in an attempt to defend their faith. The Bible was written this way on purpose. If any loopholes should surface, and there are too many to count, then you can take the loophole in question and fudge it to make sense. As for the Earth bein' 6000 years old...c'mon. Look at the facts. We have texts that are older than that. I'm not trying to knock ya at all. If you want to call yourself Christian, go ahead, and I'd support ya. But I think people are grasping for something to get them through. When I get into these debates with hardcore Christians they get stumped and say,"Well, that's just the way God wants it." I'm sorry, but this is not enough. It's the equivalent to sayin', "Just because." What this says to me is that these people really can't justify their belief...it's been taught to them and they really don't understand it but their too stubborn to admit that they might be wrong. So they go through their lives never really knowin' what it is they believe. But they defend it anyway. Out of pride...which is a sin, I believe, eh? The undisputable truth is that the Bible was written by men. Can you prove to me that God exists? No, you can't. Just as much as I can prove he/she doesn't. However, I feel that my case is stronger. For the simple fact of lack of evidence. Can you prove to me the existance of God beyond a reasonable doubt? I don't think ya can. And the Bible doesn't count. Written and rewritten and rewritten. Another response I get from the hardcore faction is,"Faith is the key to knowing and understanding God." Well, it's not workin' because they can't tell me anything. I even got into it with this really Catholic woman once who started saying, "If you don't understand, then I'm not goin' to tell you," or, "You must search for the meaning of my words." What the heck is that? I translated that as, "I really can't answer your question." I'm trying to research but if people like her are bein' selfish with the answers then what am I to do? Maybe you can help me out. I just want to know where God is for all of these people who are suffering through no fault of their own. Can you tell me that? I'm not dumpin' on ya, just answering your post with a view from another standpoint. Take care...Gallytuck. |
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Date: 4/1/2002 10:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
Okay...I'll tell ya what I believe (like I sent in that message I replied to ya with): I totally believe that The Bible was orginally inspired by the Lord. And that any contradictions/misinterpretations that are in it aren't from the original text (as inspired by the Lord) but have cropped up after being translatted into other languages. As I said in the message...translation of one language into another language (such as English) leaves some gaps for 'choose an English word that best fits' to happen. For instance, in my own Native language (NZ Maori) there are words that cannot be translated into English...they can get close, but the true meaning, the very 'essence' of the word or phrase can NEVER be translated...for within that word or phrase is an understanding of not only the Maori language but the Maori culture as a whole...and without that understanding one could never fully appreciate or comprehend what that word/phrase truly means. For instance...the Maori word for 'Love' is 'Aroha'...yet 'Love' does not sum up the true essence of what the word 'Aroha' means to Maori. Get what I mean??? I may have some minute doubts about the validity of every word in the English texted Bible I have...but I have NO doubts whatsoever in God...so I put my faith in Him. Peace, |
Date: 4/2/2002 6:59:00 AM
From Authorid: 17525
SO what's the debate?  |
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Date: 4/2/2002 9:33:00 AM
From Authorid: 19382
Osiris. The Author wants US to create the debate I think. |
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Date: 4/2/2002 1:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 36803
<<<agrees with Osiris. What's the debate? -avalonelle  |
Date: 4/2/2002 7:29:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 52692
I made this for people to contact me and debate me one on one. But creating a debate with the replies would be pretty intresting.  |
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Date: 4/2/2002 8:39:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 52692
By the way I got my author ID name from a story I wrote. In english I had to write about another the place that Gulliver (Gulliver's Travels) visited. My story was about him representing Agnosticism, and him going to a new land filled with many clans. Each clan was a different religion, and the Yeshmeshuans were the Christians. (combination of Yeshua and Messiah) |
Date: 4/3/2002 5:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 27414
Where did you get the idea that the earth is only 6000 years old? From the Bible?  |
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Date: 4/3/2002 8:15:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 52692
It would be hard to go into very much detail on here, but I'll try. Scientists say that the Grand Canyon proves that the earth is billions of years old. Science is based on observation. Just by looking at Grand Canyon, one has to agree. But when Mt. St. Helens erupted it caused a miniature Grand Canyon. It has all the characteristics that the Grand Canyon does, and it took only a few minutes to create. The river supposedly caused most of the erosion. That river is extremely small. In order for it to carve such an enormous canyon would call for a lot of rain. This is where Noah's flood comes in. After the Flood, life on earth totally changed. In the Bible it teaches that people lived for hundreds of years before the Flood, but after the flood God cursed man so that we could only live up to 120. I also believe that dinosaurs were on the ark. I'm sure Noah was smart enough to only get the babies of the kinds of animals. The biggest dinosaur egg ever found is about the size of a football, so it wouldn't have been very hard to put a baby T-Rex in the arc. Another thing about reptiles is that they never stop growing. If man lived for hundreds of years, then reptiles probably did too. This to me makes a lot of sense, because how else could dinosaurs grow from nothing larger than a football to an enormous beast if their life spans were like the average reptile today? There is definately more evidence than that, but that's all I'm going to write for now. If anybody would like to go into further discussion about please feel free to write me. Thanks and God Bless |
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Date: 4/4/2002 8:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 27414
A lot of rain in the Grand Canyon is possible over millions of years and I doubt that the river was always that small. If man lived for hundreds of years, then why hasn't it been established by skeletal remains? The oldest mummy, found in the mountains (labeled Ice Man), was estimated to be in his 30's and the mummy over 5000 years old. This certainly pre-dates any writings or even former speculations. Reptiles, certain ones like the tortoise, can live for well over 100 years. As far as the egg theory, a full grown man/woman can weigh in over 1 ton after being born under 4 lbs. I would like to discuss more when I get the time. You have a curious take on the origins of Earth. |
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Date: 4/5/2002 9:31:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 52692
I do agree that it is possible that a lot of rain over millions of years could have caused the Grand Canyon, and that the river probably wasn't always that small. The point of me saying what I did was to show that using the Grand Canyon as evidence that the Earth is millions of years old is worthless. The Grand Canyon could show that Noah's flood really did happen or that the earth really is billions of years old. This is the case with basically all the things that are "proof" that the earth is billions of years old. They can go either way, so they are invalid to use in both arguements. As for why hasn't there been skeletal evidence to people living hundreds of years, is that they most in likely did not age as rapidly as we do now. I'm sure that when they were about to die of old age they looked a lot like an old person would today. Now, I don't know how the aging worked, and I'm not going to try to figure it out, becuase you can only know if you were there. Are you sure the name of the mummy is Ice Man? If you tell me where and when it was found I could explain it to you, but I can't find anything on with just Ice Man. Sorry man. I don't quite get what you were getting at with the tortoise, and I totally didn't understand a word of the man/woman being born weighing a ton after 4 lbs. That is some crazy stuff man. Crazy I tell you. Well anyways man, that's all I got for now. Keep throwing things my way though. Later man. God Bless |
Date: 4/5/2002 9:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Many of the stories in the bible were taken from ancient Greek mythology. They had a flood legend too; right after Pandora was naughty enough to open her box (the one she was given by the gods as a wedding present but was forbidden to open it; does that sound familiar?, and all the evils of the world rushed out, the gods decided the best way to solve all this problem would be to drown everyone. Typical. But Pandora, her husband and all the animals got saved on....(you've heard this one?)....a BOAT! Great story, eh? Oh, wait. you heard that before.......so, now Pandora was created by the gods. She was cursed by one of the goddesses with eternal curiosity. (Bright move....Give a curious woman and incredibly dangerous artifact and tell her she CAN'T look inside, then drowns everyone else if she does. (THAT sounds just about as stupid as creating a human who has no concept of right and wrong and then telling him/her that it is wrong if they eat from a certain tree. Of course, the only way to gain knowledge of right and wrong is to eat from that tree! ummmm, yah, Hand a bottle of Drain-O to a 2 year old and then act surprised when he poisons humself 'cause he can't read instructions. Congratulations! You just played god! *wink*  |
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Date: 4/6/2002 3:08:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 52692
Thinker: There a lot of Biblical stories that are very similar to mythological stories. There is no question about that. The question is; Was the Bible based on myth or is that mythical stories originate with Biblical teahings? I understand why you think that the Tree of Knowlegdge seems contradictory. But in reality it just shows that God knew they were going to disobey Him. Common sense alone would have let Him know that. God did this so we would have a choice to either serve or not to. If he didn't give us the ability to do wrong then that would mean everyone would be forced to love God no matter what. What kind of love comes by force? Love is a choice, and God is Love. Either choose to obey Him or don't and face the consequences. Every action has a consequence. Thats a fact. Just some actions have eternal consequences. (Consequences aren't always bad) Thanks for your input, and write back if I left any questions. God bless |
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Date: 4/7/2002 5:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
"Either believe and worship me or burn in hell for eternity". SOME CHOICE there. If that isn't FORCE, then what is!? Author, (you should sign your name to posts) I was going to go into a long explanation and give illustration/examples, of the different myths that came from many places and peoples WHICH WERE the BASIS for many stories in the Bible.....however, I've decided that IF you are a serious seeker of truth, and you definitely desire to study something OTHER THAN WHAT CHRISTIANITY only allows you to study, then let me know. I've checked out bookstores, and the overwhelming majority of the books in the religious section is CHRISTIAN books and christian gobbly gook, inspirational sugar coated stuff, books that are filled with "inspirational" nonsensical things and lots of lies. NO WONDER, it is NO wonder at all why christians just attribute everything to "God", every question has some simple and pat little answers for everything (like what you have said here regarding most everything especially your dissertation explaining the Grand Canyon!); and the majority of christians NEVER know, NEVER will see; NEVER EVEN EXPOSED to writings by authors who are freethinkers; who examine things with critical thought; authors who are biased by religious fervor and belief; authors who are honest. Christianity does not want you to read those type of things and tell you NOT TO QUESTION; not to think, but just have faith....just BELIEVE.....just read the bible or "pray about it". The types of pseudo "scientific" books that you read; well, if that were the only thing I read or exposed to, I'd say the same things. What you don't know, you don't KNOW, and can't, if your're not exposed to it. Everyday, I uncover more and more, new and different stuff. Many times I say to myself : Gee, I wonder why these authors are front and center of every bookstore? why can't the TRUTHS be known to all? Why aren't more people revolting; why aren't they gobbling up this stuff....why why why? But then, I answer myself. There are many reasons, but one is that it is so much simpler, and easier to follow the herd, it is so much nicer, less effort, to just let the religious leaders do the thinking, the writing, and the guiding. Hope this makes sense. I have to try to realize that or try to remember that I USED to think the same way or say the same things when *I* was a christian. *sigh* I was such an innocent one...*sigh* so naive. |
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Date: 4/7/2002 5:30:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
I forgot to insert "NOT" in the statement " Read Authors who are NOT biased..." (Sorry, I should proofread more.) |
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Date: 4/7/2002 3:27:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 52692
Thinker: A little advice.......don't judge me. You'll always be wrong when you do. I sensed A LOT of hostility from you reply. I want this to be a calm rational debate. Please don't go jumping to conclusions or make assumptions about me. "I've decided that IF you are a serious seeker of truth, and you definitely desire to study something OTHER THAN WHAT CHRISTIANITY only allows you to study, then let me know." That is some messed up stuff right there. It makes Chrisianity out as some cult that teaches that if you read anything other than what you were taught to believe then you will be shunned, and hated forever. Believe it or not I have quite a few books that go against what I believe: Origin of Species, Charles Darwin; Don't Know Much About the Bible, Kenneth C. Davis; God's Funeral, A.N. WIlson; The Scientific American book of the Cosmos, Edited by David H. Levy; and the Lost Gospel Q, Marcus Borg. Believe it or not there is such a thing as an open-minded Christian. "I've checked out bookstores, and the overwhelming majority of the books in the religious section is CHRISTIAN books and christian gobbly gook, inspirational sugar coated stuff." I agree. This is the case in many non-Christian bookstores. Why? Because Christianity is the dominant religion, and because books like that sell very well. I'm not going to try and deny that. It's true. A lot of Christians only want to read stuff like that. They just want something that will "make them feel just dandy all over." It's sad really. The books I read are called apologetics. They defend the Christian religion, and provide rebuttles to common objections. You will probabaly not find a very good selection of them at any non-Christian bookstore, and you're not even guaranteed a good selection of them at a Christian store. I work at Berean Christian Stores. The one I work at has a really good selection. Books I suggest: When Critics Ask & When Skeptics Ask, they are both by Norman Geisler; Does God Believe in Atheists?, John Blanchard; In Six Days, edited by John F. Ashton; So What's the Difference?, Fritz Ridenour; Jesus Among Other Gods, Ravi Zacharias; and The Signature and the Handwriting of God, Grant R. Jeffrey. If you have any more questions about what I said....ask. Don't just say you don't like it or disagree with it. I need to know why. "Many times I say to myself : Gee, I wonder why these authors are front and center of every bookstore? why can't the TRUTHS be known to all? Why aren't more people revolting; why aren't they gobbling up this stuff....why why why? But then, I answer myself. There are many reasons, but one is that it is so much simpler, and easier to follow the herd, it is so much nicer, less effort, to just let the religious leaders do the thinking, the writing, and the guiding." I think the same thing when I read the books that I read, so one of us is most in likely being mislead. I believe it's you, and you believe it's me. That is the point of this debate: to see if Christians are being decieved or non-Christians. I agree with everything else that you wrote in that passage that I just pasted. Thanks for your input, though. Please keep writing back to me. Take care and God bless |
Date: 4/15/2002 11:04:00 AM
From Authorid: 18201
A good portion of the bible is taken "out of context"...even by priests! That's the very problem with the entire faith! Too many people take this one book and interpret it differently...each priest interprets it differently...and for this reason, we have hundreds of offshoots on a single religion that all use the same book and all have different meanings for the EXACT SAME THING!  |
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