Date: 4/10/2002 9:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 609
You make some great points. But just to show a different view Ill state mine, lol like ya wanted it in the first place lol. First I feel that NO ONE OWNS ANYTHING, Im sick of our race (meaning the human one) laying claim to everything, if its there we own it some how then we have to divide and catorgrise everything. It is so stupid, we dont own the land anymore then we own air and we dont own the sun any more then we own dust...these things are older than us and are far from our possion, if anything they own us. Now to the Middle East issue its hard to solve, its been going on so long. I dont know why these two people cant get along but I guess their feelings are outweighing their love of family and peace. I feel what Israeli troups are doing right now is very wrong. Sharon is making stupid choices in how he is handeling the situaion, at the same time the Palastinians are not helping anything, but the difference is that it is normal people going out committing these bombing suicides,whereas its a leader commanding his troups to round up and retaliate. I think they are making the situation worse and what perhaps is needed is a modern kind Soloman, split the country in two right down the middle...one gets one half the other gets theirs and they stay out of each others yards lol. But I know that would never work either. Its a hard one but no one is doing a single right thing.  |
Date: 4/10/2002 9:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 21266
Did you experience living there? Did you look through the past history of both the Jews and Muslims and see which one rightfully owns the land? Do you see any evidence that the land belongs to either one? I suggest you do some research and then get back on this one 8)
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Date: 4/10/2002 10:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 21266
Oh yeah, and the Muslims don't want the land just because Mohammed 'placed his foot' over there. I'll get you some info in a while. |
Date: 4/10/2002 10:01:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
~PHE~ you have indeed make an excellent point. I too believe the Earth is our Mother & we are Her guests. The propblem is, the majority of people do not believe the Earth is anything other than a THING, to be owned & divided.This is such a very painful situation.My heart bleeds when I see a picture of a wheelchair bound old man with heart-problems pushed over mountains of debris to get to a doctor, knowing an sniper could kill them at any moment. Yes, the sucide bomber who attacked at Passover, during a Sayder dinner was inexcusable!!!!!So, what do we do....? Send troops to help the Jews...?  |
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Date: 4/10/2002 10:04:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 15070
Absz, as I said, I am an American & a non-Jew. I only know what little I was taught in school. This is an open-forum & if you could enlighten me, I am willing to learn! I clearly said "....if I am wrong, if I am missing something important to the whole picture, I would encourage you to please help me understand". That is a ligitamate request to open dialog. |
Date: 4/10/2002 10:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 7830
I completely agree with Phe.  |
Date: 4/11/2002 2:48:00 AM
From Authorid: 49277
i also can not disagree with phe, but who more rightfully should own it if anyone?> I have to say the Palestinians. It is their land, and the reason the Jews think it is theirs aside from religios reasons is that the British gave it to them. But in my opinion the british or anyone else cant give away something that is already owned! and with the religious issue, wouldnt it be better to just leave, and just visit the "holy" place, rather than to war and kill over it? although where can the jews go?? I dont know, but i dont think its right that they take the land from the people living there. i wish they could share too. its such a sad situation.  |
Date: 4/11/2002 4:40:00 AM
From Authorid: 51876
This is a good Debate I wish I didn't have to leave.........  |
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Date: 4/11/2002 4:40:00 AM
From Authorid: 21266
I know what you're saying but you're clearly stating that Israelies have the right to 'own' the land, if you admit your semi-knowledge regarding the situation then why take sides???
You also stated, in your response to Phe's message, that sending 'troops to help the Jews' was a good idea.
For God's sake, people admit that what the Israeli's are doing wrong and inspite of that they INSIST on labeling the people as innocent!
I've always wondered why the Israelies are soooo innocent, when THEY'RE the ones that barged into the country slaughtering literally every mother, father and child.
Overall, I respect your desires for learning more..as I said I'm more than happy to provide you some information...As soon as I'm done with my studies :p in a few hours 8) |
Date: 4/11/2002 5:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
By your opinon, it could be said that the Native Americans have no rights to America, since the Europeans brought culture, roads, and technology to America. In ancient times, both people ocupied the disputed land. Sometimes they were at odds with each other, often times they traded among one another. Both sides have legitimate claims to the land of Israel, dating back centuries. Lebanon, for years, was a perfect example of christianity and the moslem world being able to live together in peace. Outside influences though brought that country to war, and destroyed a way of life for all the people there. If all outside influences were removed from Israel, and the Israeli government was to give the Palistinians equeal rights and protection under the law, Israel could easily become a country where both sides can live togehter. As I have sadi many times though, it is not the ploiticians or military that can make that happen. It would take the clerics, and those people who truly want a peaceful coexistance to make it happen. I am not pro-Israeli, pro-Palistinian, or pro-Arab. There have been wrongs done by each.  |
Date: 4/11/2002 5:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 22852
This is an Excellent post and since I do not know all the true details I can not really say who should have the land. I was born and raised a Catholic but pratice no religion. You could say I am in limbo on that. But I can say I feel that Isreal has the right to fight. If here in America we had suicide bombers walking into broadway shows or the corner deli's then you can beat the President would fight the country that was supplying these people so I feel President Bush has no right to tell Isreal to "get out now" Those in the middle east need to work this out and may the best man win. It is sad beyond belief the death that is accurring over there and my prayers are with them but they have been fighting for years and I don't think it will ever end.  |
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Date: 4/11/2002 5:42:00 AM
From Authorid: 21266
DEFENCE, DEFENCE, WHEN PEOPEL OCCUPY YOUR COUNTRY U HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND YOURSELF UR PEOPLE AND THE COUNTRY YOU OWN RIGHTFULLY, I BET IF SOME COUNTRY ATTACKED AMERICA, AMERICA WOULD OBVIOUSLY RETALIATE JUST LIKE PALESTINE IS DOING RIGHT NOW.
GEEZ! |
Date: 4/11/2002 6:36:00 AM
From Authorid: 10733
Personally I feel that the land belongs to all the people who have been born on that land. Israelies are acting like children and so are the palestines.. they are doing a tic for tac thing and it needs to stop. Wanting land back is not an excuse for geonicide which is what I feel each group want to ultimately accomplish.  |
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Date: 4/11/2002 6:37:00 AM
From Authorid: 10733
Oh by the way how's it going LSG? haven't spoken to you in ages..LOL |
Date: 4/11/2002 8:02:00 AM
From Authorid: 15394
Interesting little fact.. Isreal men have to do a two year stint as a soldier, but for life they can be recalled to duty... when the Isreal army discharges them after two years, they up their rank so that if they get called back, they will be paid a higher amount, so that their families won't suffer by them being pulled out of the economy and not being paid as much as they were earning in the private sector... but who pays for that??? the higher rate?? I hear on the radio that the US is subsidizing the soldiers pay at the higher ranking... anyone else hearing about this? Part of some economic package we agreed to...  |
Date: 4/11/2002 9:42:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
I have found it interesting that NONE of the 60+ Muslim countries which recently held a conference viewed the suicide bombings as terroristic attacks. This alone tells me much more than a discussion over "who has the right to own the land" in that area. Historically, whoever CONQUERS a piece of land owns it. According to history, Israel rightfully owns the entire west bank and a few OTHER areas which they have been able to defend, annex, or hold. I realize this comment will fuel the fire here, but it is my opinion. Is Israel right in "attacking" the Palestinian areas? One must look at the reasons WHY they are doing so to determine that answer. What are the reasons for doing this? 1)suicide bombings from the people who live in that area 2) other terroristic threats coming from this area Are the Israelis justified in defending themselves by being PROACTIVE instead of REACTIVE??? Well... a good offense is better than a good defense. IMO, of course.  |
Date: 4/12/2002 2:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 23991
Who were the Israelis to come into a well working culture and try to assimilate them in the first place? The lands that Israel have were GIVEN to them...by a group that felt sympathetic...and now we're surpised that the Palestinians are that hateful...  |
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Date: 4/12/2002 10:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 49277
warrior spirit, please do not even mention what the europeans did to the Native Americans thats a whole different issue and arguement that i would be very glad to have but not now.. ABSZ is right i think. and besides the actions of a few suicide bombers does not and shouldnt reflect on the group of people as a whole. we have some crazies in our country... so??? It isnt the same as military action :) |
