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Date: 4/29/2002 8:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 5301
...I believe in self-healing. Miracles are for the "true believers".  |
Date: 4/29/2002 8:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 28848
Yes I do and have witnessed many.  |
Date: 4/29/2002 8:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 39258
i'm not too sure. i guess if people believe it works, why not. I've read a book about Hmong culture and they would practice coin rubbings on children when they were sick and it actually made them feel better.. along with other 'remidies" they cooked up.. kinda interesting, but i don't know too much about it to make a point or decision on whether or not i believe it  |
Date: 4/29/2002 8:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 11348
I don't believe that God has anything to do with it. I believe in miracles but I believe they happen when you have so much faith that you will have one of those miracles. I believe if you truly believe in something, it can happen. If you have faith that somehow you will have a miracle or a healing act, you will but not as a result of God... just as a result of believing you will so faithfully. Does that make sense? That's just my opinion.  |
Date: 4/29/2002 8:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 24732
I don't know about those people in circus tents who talk loudly, those are just weird. But I think if you believe hard enough (in some cases) it will come true. On Unsolved Mysteries once this guy thought a lady had put a voodoo curse on him and he was getting really sick, no other doctors could cure him. So these 2 doctors preformed a voodoo ceremony and he got better. They didn't actually know voodoo, but the guy believed they did so he is now well again.  |
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Date: 4/29/2002 8:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 24732
I say even if the people are frauds, if it helps someone then let them go at it. |
Date: 4/29/2002 8:50:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
There are so MANY different things that go on around the world that involve faith healing, and it amazes me... it does make you wonder, if it IS all in the mind, wouldn't it be wild if we could ALL have the ability to do things like that if we put our minds to it?  |
Date: 4/29/2002 8:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 3688
i believe in miracles... i've been witness to them a few times with my own life...but the faith healing.....ahhhh i just don't think so....but that's just me :)  |
Date: 4/29/2002 8:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 50530
My cousin breaked part of his skull when he falled from a second floor,the family reunited to pray for him and the next day he was totally fine, the doctors din't knew what happened. -Anonymouse-  |
Date: 4/29/2002 8:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 48993
i do believe in miracles and faith healing , i think that god has a hand in everything so to speak!  |
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Date: 4/29/2002 8:52:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
I almost think faith healing is a lot like the Shoalin monks that focus thier chi and let people push swords in thier stomachs and the blades bend but don't cut them... mind over matter... if they can do things like that, why couldn't the mind have the ability to heal the body? |
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Date: 4/29/2002 8:54:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
I have a question: what would it take to make you believe something was a true miracle? |
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Date: 4/29/2002 8:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 5301
...I'd believe in a true miracle if my truck stopped leaking anti-freeze! |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:00:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Did you know there are only FOUR places in the world that the Catholic church recognizes as miracle sites? I think I'm gonna look them up and post them here... |
Date: 4/29/2002 9:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Sometimes people survive serious life threatning illness for which there is no explaination, I belief they may well be miracles. Over the years I have seen too much too not believe that unexplained things happen in cases where we almost always expected the worst, one case was a diabetic patient, in her twenties, Type I Diabetic, pregnant, about 4 1/2 months when she went into a diabetic coma, no one expected her or the baby to survive, lack of oxygen was a major concern, but she did, and so did her child, she was in a coma for almost 5 months, baby was delivered ceasarean, today he is 6 years old, very healthy and normal, she did suffer some minimal damage because of lack of oxygen but pretty much lives a normal and happy life. They stop in every so often and I am always glad to see them. I don't know if it was a miracle, many of the docs thought so, most who were of different faiths and culture. They were reluctant to take credit. Many times I have seen patients live far longer and productive than I would have expected from a clinical viewpoint. Those who have great faith and a "meaning" for life always seem to rebound quickest.  |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
*believe* |
Date: 4/29/2002 9:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
I believe the human mind is a very powerful tool. I believe the human mind can cause "miracles". I do believe the "spirits" can, and do assist the living, but most "healings" are self-induced. That is my opinion.  |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:06:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Okay, maybe I won't be posting the miracle sites I mentioned... i can't find anything about them on the internet... i'm gonna keep looking though... |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:07:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Shadow Ghost-- i agree that there are many healings that happen with no explanation. It makes you wonder WHAT the cause is... |
Date: 4/29/2002 9:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
You know what they say is the world's oldest profession? Yeah, well, faith healing is a very close second. Unbelievable what gullibles will STILL believe today in the year 2002. The blatant sideshow hucksters such as Binny Hinn are raking in the dough-re-me $$$$$$$ big time. Mind control, working the people into a bloody frenzy, and giving them dreams and "visions" and huge promises. Creepy. Showmanship. There are no miracles. IF you get in a horrible car accident, and later you see the totalled car, and say "It was a miracle I didn't die!". NO miracle. It was NOT your day. You got LUCKY. SOMETHING prevented it and I don't want to list all the many different variables as to how or what that something is. It wasn't any god or guardian angel, but obviously it makes many people happy or comforted to THINK or BELIEVE that.  |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:08:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
LSG-- you really think that spirits assist the living? I haven't ever really thought about that before... |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:10:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
The Thinker-- but what about the people who don't do it for money or publicity? Or what about the MINDS ability to heal or do miraculous things? I need to search the internet for some examples... |
Date: 4/29/2002 9:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 45630
I'm too much of a sceptic to be sceptical.  |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:14:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
kurtvedder-- i don't get it... |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 45630
that means that I think to much about things to really care if they are miracles or not as long as people aren't getting hurt I reckon bring em on. |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:17:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
What do you think about statues of Mary crying? Or what about the thing thats happening with the statue of Ganesha drinking milk? |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:18:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Kurtvedder-- ok okay... i was having a *blonde* moment :) |
Date: 4/29/2002 9:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
1)no 2)no 3)kindof. The scriptural definition of "miracle" is something which CANNOT happen naturally (it goes against the laws of science) AND it somehow affirms or "proves" God is personally involved at that time. Today, the word "miracle" has lost a bit of its meaning. It's used in much more generically, and, IMO, is a bit over-used. 4)possibly both (miracles DO happen.... but I have yet to see a "faith healer" who was genuine) 5)no. I do not believe in coincidences anymore 6)I may have explained this in my answer to your third question, but here goes: for something to be a proven miracle to me, it would have to be an act which affirmed God's existence and could not be anything which could happen naturally.  |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
After reading some of these replies, anonymous (authorid# 50530) just gave you a perfect example of what I would consider a miracle. |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
The statues which drink milk are frauds. I have seen documentaries on them more than once on the discovery channel. |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:27:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Paranoid-- I agree the term 'miracle" is overused. |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:28:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
paranoid-- okay if the statues that drink milk are fake, what about the staues that cry? |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
This same show demonstrated how some of those are also fakes, but since most of these icons are not available for study (by any 'expert') the rest remain a "faith" issue. I personally believe they are fake. Why would God want a statue to cry??? What would be the point? |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:32:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Paranoid-- i agree. what would be the point? but then it makes you wonder, what if it really is Gods way of getting peoples attention? |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 5301
...Dizzy always ignores me... I must be too close to the truth for her to accept! (or, she's frustrated because I'm already married!). |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:33:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
HI HECKLER :P |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 5301
...but, if I wasn't already spoken for, I'd probably be amenable to a proposal (if she had a substantial trousseau). |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
There are more direct ways to get people's attention, than to have something happen which is debateable. Even the Pharisees of Jesus' time admitted that His miracles were real, and could not refute them. One cannot make that statement today about ANY "faith" healers I know of. |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 51393
Hi! Dizzy me,my mom had a healing done to her when i was in Phillipines she had a tumor taken out of her,now i don't know exactly,if it was true or a tall tale story,but my mom made me believe it really did happened.I saw a type of healing that it was so grossed until now i cannot forget. there was a guy who was hexed by a witch and he had a bumped all over like tumor on his body. There was a gentleman what i belive to be a healer pulled him and dipped him in a barrel and you would see a all kinds of roaches and all types of bugs coming off of him,now i don't know ,if it was a trick or not ,but it seems quite real to me. Much Love to You Always Diana  |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
Hekler, you just managed to use a word I don't know the meaning of :P That doesn't happen to me too often. What's a trousseau????? |
Date: 4/29/2002 9:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 45551
the human mind can do anything, we just need to learn to tap its powers. as far as faith healers,some might not be frauds they may have tapped into one of thier minds powers or it may be the mind of the person being healed.miraclesare the direct result of a chain of events and circumstances thats odds of happening are astronimical. lets take for instance winning the power ball, now a person has a better chance of being struck by lightning than winning the power ball, yet about every other week or so someone wins. call it luck, coincidence or whatever. i think some people when they see good things happen and the odds are so long or something is not understood it makes people feel better about their god and religon just to claim it was a miracle,plus, that way they dont have to think about it.  |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
K. Thanks :) A dowery :D |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 5301
...Paranoid...it's the worldy items of value that a bride brings with her into the marriage... items such as money, furnishings and other stuff.(including goats, camels,sheep and chickens). |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
Wait 'till FB sees this post, she's going to freak on all of us who don't believe in faith healers *smiles* |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
EVERYTHING is in the mind that way, Dizzy; that is, one can self induce, or someone can brainwash (mind control) them into "seeing" things that aren't really there, feeling certain things in a certain way and believing or wanting something so bad that it triggers or sets into motion, certain endorphins or cause the bodies own immune system to fight certain pathogenic invasions. (This may or may not help in the overall healing process, but it isn't because of any "miracle" or "prayer". My sister has these "laying on of hands" and "prayer vigils" at the bedside of people. heh, it is something to see. Those people are whacko. I always thought that if they ever did that to me, that if I wasn't sick enough already, then after that, I sure as heck WOULD BE! Can I get a witness! :) |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:56:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Paranoid-- i have one question about something you said in your first comment-- you say a miracle is classified as something that could not happen naturally and that only god could do, right? It seems like many things like that happen all the time but skeptics always have excuses as to why they are not miracles and so on... I do really wonder if at times god does do things that are considered miracles that are just ignored or scoffed at by skeptics... do you know what I am trying to say? |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:57:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
The thinker-- you really are adament (sp?) about this whole atheist thing aren't you? lol I am not picking on your belief, i am kidding-- BUT don't you EVER feel like there are things that cannot be explained and that there must be a greater force at work? |
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Date: 4/29/2002 9:58:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Master of fate-- you have a good point... |
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Date: 4/29/2002 10:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 45551
heck, give me a couple thousand dollars and i'll make up a dance and do it for you i'll even mummble some chants you cant under stand and put a couple drops of water on your fore head(lol).....man, i think i'm in the wrong business(lol). there may be maybe less than 1% that actually are not frauds, but i cant tell the differance. |
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Date: 4/29/2002 10:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 45551
there is a greater force, its called energy, millions and millions of atoms collideing and interacting. Everything that happens comes directly or indirectly from a choice or choices we have made, kinda like, for every action there is an eqaul or greater reaction. people just like to call them miracles cause they dont understand. |
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Date: 4/29/2002 10:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
NO. IF there is something, and WHEN ANYTHING that I don't know, can't find the answers, and no explanations for, I do NOT just default to "Yep, must be God did it". Or, if I see some strange light in the sky, I have many different variables or scenarios to think about or mull over or discuss with others as far as to possible explanations. I DO NOT just say "OMG, I saw a UFO!" There are most always some kind of natural explanation, but WHEN there ISN'T, I just simply say I do not know, and let it go at that, or perhaps keep on researching or talking about it. To me, the whole God concept was invented by man so's to have an easy explanation for all the unknowns of that time. |
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Date: 4/29/2002 10:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 51393
You are quite right Heckler That is exactly what my mom did she said she gave this person three goats they would not accept money.She was told the gift he has are forbidden to accept money,gold or silver that represent a value.It has to be food or animal. May God |
Date: 4/29/2002 10:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
I have to go with Thinker's first comment and not because I am atheist either, because I am not. I do however feel that when your time is up it is up and no matter what you could have done to change the circumstances the outcome would have been the same way. Like Thinker's example, If I survive a horrific car accident it was because it wasn't my time. Faith Healers, I don't believe in either. The mind is a powwerful thing itself. I am sure that mindset has the ability to heal just as it has the ability to make one feel sick and have symptoms that don't exist. Ever notice that most of the time if you take a pill for something the symptoms go away almost immediately...LOL...You can trick people by giving them a sugar pill while they think its aspirin and their headache instantly goes away. Just having the mindset that you took something to relieve the pain is often enough to get you focused on something else and before you know it you forgot about your pain and it stopped, but you think the pills did it. I HATE taking pills, so I know how well this works....LOL....A negative mindset draws negativity towards you, a positive mindset draws positivity towards you. Anytime you have looked at the positive side of a situation no matter how bad it may be, it always makes you able to deal with the problem a little better. Negativity is like a sickness in itself. If people want to call someone that survives an illness a part of a miracle then so be it, however I just simply believe that it wasn't their time to go and it was a part in their life they were meant to experience to gain more knowledge  |
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Date: 4/29/2002 10:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Did someone mention the Shaolin? They really concentrate, spend YEARS in discipline and training of their MINDS. THAT I definitely believe in. YOU; WE, US; all of us have such unbelievable powers of the MIND. I find that I am very PHYsically strong, when my mind is at peace, and focused. If it is not at peace or I am stressed or confused, then I am very weak and feel tired and sleepy. |
Date: 4/29/2002 10:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 52692
It's sad to think of how deception has plagued people's minds today. Yeshmeshuan  |
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Date: 4/29/2002 10:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 45551
ok this could be a debate in itself, but just to clarify, when you say it wasn't your day to go, are you implying a person was Just lucky,or, that thier fate has already been laid out and it literaly wasn't thier day to go? |
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Date: 4/29/2002 11:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
Sry, I was doing a little "digging" into some older posts :D The scriptural definition is this: something which is clearly from God, not an act which can ever happen naturally, and it affirms His will --whether it is "backing up" somebody's teachings (ex: Jesus' teachings) or proving something to other nations (ex: parting of the Red Sea/Egypt). Miracles may still be happening today, I have yet to see one :) Or hear about a true miracle which attested to God's power. The miracles one hears about today are normally "I had a tumor and it is 'miraculously' gone". Physical ailments ARE verifiable. And the people to whom these types of things have happened to, as far as I know (I could be wrong) are normally believers. But ...who is to say that science is merely ignorant as to why these tumors "disappeared". Unless God physically, literally told these people "I will heal you" these types of healings are subjective. Other things which people classify as miracles boggle my mind. For example, maybe you SHOULD have hit that car which pulled out in front of you while you were going 70 MPH, but one could certainly point to the engineering behind the brakes on your car AND your own reflexes/response time for this "miraculous" near-miss just as easily as attributing it to God. I asked this before... what would be the POINT of that happening? Maybe 10 years from then, one might decide "this is why" that happened to them, but ALL miracles found within the scriptures were done for CLEAR, SPECIFIC reasons which were made known at the time they happened. (plagues, healings, etc) Hope this isn't too long, now I'll try to catch up on the rest of the replies here before calling it a night! |
Date: 4/29/2002 11:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 15033
God made our minds...we have the option to believe with those minds, which is having faith, and/or using it to ask for or create miracles. So to me it is in our minds, and of God, at the same time. :-)  |
Date: 4/29/2002 11:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 17525
Personally I don't know anyone who can heal with their hands. I don't know anyone who knows anyone who can do such things and I don't know anyone who knows anyone who knows anyone who can do such things. I only hear stories. I've never seen it or any newspaper articles, or any personal witness reports. I only hear stories. I hear stories about werewolves and hobgoblins and large sea creatures too. But I haven't seen any of these either. If it were the case that someone could heal with their hands, it strikes me as odd that the individual doesn't make it their life's work to heal the masses. Why aren't we hearing something along these lines? Someone who has healed thousands or millions of people? Why haven't these healers come to be known for their 'numbers' rather than for their 'reputation'. Just a curiosity. Peace,  |
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Date: 4/29/2002 11:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 51393
From what i have heard of when i was still living there with my mom.He was told that whem media tried to show them off it angers the healer. He said ,quote "I will only heal someone that GOD lead to me i do not appreciate the media exposing me I am only here in his regards and that is all"That was i was told of what had happened then. Much Love to you Always Diana |
Date: 4/30/2002 2:45:00 AM
From Authorid: 38474
Yes I believe in miracles, but as for faith healing I think it is more mind over matter.....  |
Date: 4/30/2002 3:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 34814
I believe it is possible. I have seen it in many cases. I also believe what we believe or manifest happens.  |
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Date: 4/30/2002 8:54:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
The thinker and azairyia-- what about diseases that mysteriously disappear, and the doctors have no explanation for it? There have been documented cases of people with cancer or other terminal diseases that totally recover overnight with no explanation. How do explain something like that? Do you think that the power of the mind overruled the sickness of the body? |
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Date: 4/30/2002 8:56:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Thunderhead-- that is a GREAT way to look at things... I kinda like that explanation... |
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Date: 4/30/2002 8:56:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
paranoid-- I still say God could cause miracles to happen and people are to skeptical to believe it... (I am trying to see both sides of this issue because I don't know what to think about it) |
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Date: 4/30/2002 8:58:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Osiris-- supposedly in Venesuala (sp?) there is a woman who has the power to heal-- its at some place that is recognized by the Catholic church as a miracle site... I have been trying to find info about it on the internet but i can't find anything... |
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Date: 4/30/2002 8:59:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
love kitten-- what exactly have you seen happen? miracles or faith healing? |
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Date: 4/30/2002 9:01:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Diana-- that is interesting. i can see where there COULD be truth in that... I mean if the person IS doing God's work, maybe they wouldn't want a lot of publicity for it... |
Date: 4/30/2002 9:03:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Just aS release me said, yes, I do and have witnessed many. God has everything to do with it.  |
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Date: 4/30/2002 9:05:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Okay-- Release ME and Firstborn-- I don't know if you have read the comments here, but most people are skeptical about miracles. Why do you feel the things you have witnessed are TRUE miracles? |
Date: 4/30/2002 9:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 15394
hmmm interesting... when someone "sees" something about another person, or "sees" in real time what someone is doing say a hundred miles away, and they see it in real time.. is that a miraculous event? I mean it is unexplained... yet verifiable...  |
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Date: 4/30/2002 9:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Just aS release me said, yes, I do and have witnessed many. God has everything to do with it. LOL @ Paranoid. My friend, faith healers are nothing in themselves and as far as some say that its all in our mind and our mind can make these things happen I say BUNK to that. IF our minds could make the hand of God move, I wouldnt be sitting here with a cough that comes everytime the season changes. YES, I believe and have seen Gods hand move in many ways. And yes, I was healed of hypoglacmia. I've seen people be healed of cancers and ms and a varity of other things. Paranoid, I'm so sorry that you choose not to believe in all that God can and does do still today, as God is the same yesterday, today and forever. But by you beliving this way, its you and yours that miss out on these blessings and I'm truely sorry for that. Me, I want everything God has to offer. NOW why to the question I'm sure all is asking, IF I believe so much and have been healed before then WHY am I suffering with this cough amoung other things. Because I dont feel worthy of being healed. I know ME, I know how my life is and I know that I'm far from perfect. I Know God feels I'm still worthy, but I dont and so therefore I cant recieve what I dont feel worthy to recieve. HOW ever, this doesnt stop me from believing for others. I dont know there lives that well, So I cant have that doubt about them being healed. I can have that doubt about myself, and this in its self will keep me from being healed and totally; healthy. It seems when one is a young christian, and doesnt have the sense to remember that they are not perfect or to think or have the inner conscience of what you can be, then its so easy to not have any doubt or unbelief. I've seen broken bones healed and the xrays the same day show that the bones were mended, even tho it JUST happened that day. I've seen people that are crippled walk again. And I'm not talking about faith gatherings, or at faith healing meetings. I'm talking about one on one, people that have been prayed for in our town and other towns. MY MIND cant make them healed as some would think. |
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Date: 4/30/2002 9:17:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
I could write a book on all I've seen, heck, maybe I will. |
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Date: 4/30/2002 9:51:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Firstborn-- I will be curious to see what the skeptics have to say about your comment. I don't know what to say about it because like I said to Paranoid (or someone) I don't know what to believe about it all... |
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Date: 4/30/2002 10:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
Don't get me wrong. I firmly believe in the power of prayer --a petition to God from us which empowers God to perform what some would call a miracle (and sometimes they truly ARE miracles). Not that He couldn't heal someone anyway, but "You do not have because you do not ask" (Jms 4:2) seems to apply to this. But I firmly do NOT believe in any of the "laying on of hands" type of faith-healing which is highly visible today through TV and other media. I believe (from scripture) that the direct healing which happened in the NT (like Jesus' and His apostles' miracles) no longer happen today. There are obviously others who believe otherwise. FB and I have had more than one debate on this matter :D |
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Date: 4/30/2002 10:21:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Paraniod-- why wouldn't God work THROUGH the "healers" |
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Date: 4/30/2002 11:04:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
Some believe He still does. I believe God does not. (I Cor 13:10) Once the scriptures were revealed, what purpose was there for attesting miracles? Like Jesus stated in Luke 16: ""But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"" I believe we have been given what we need. Once the scriptures were copmlete, there was no longer anything to "prove". It is now up to us to either accept His words or reject them. What good would these miracles do, since many people have already rejected the scriptures? Would it change their mind? I don't think so. |
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Date: 4/30/2002 11:05:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
*complete, not copmlete or whatever up there *blushes* |
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Date: 4/30/2002 12:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Paranoid, yes, we have went round and round on this. But as I asked before, what has changed? Do the sick still need healing as in the days of Jesus and the Apostles days? Do the unbelieving still need to believe as in the day of Jesus? Does demonic forces still roam on this earth today and need to be taken care of? yes, all these things are still needed today. The Bible says,1Cor:13:10: But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. IT Say when THAT which is perfect. It doesnt say Jesus, it says THAT. This means this world, and it isnt perfect. satan is still the god of this world, people are still sick, people are still not believers. that which is perfect has not come, not until satan is bound for 1,000 years. Tell me what doooooooo we do with these scriputres??Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. """John 14:12 ¶Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."" BECAUSE JESUS was going to the father, He has commissioned all that BELIEVE IN HIS NAME, to do the works that HE did. Now this says,' HE,' it doesnt say just the diciples, just the prophets. IT says HE THAT BELIEVES> I'm a believer. Then there is this one::Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? WELL of course we know its done by the hearing of faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of God. So all that hear the word of God, do have faith. I have the faith to do the works that JEsus said I could do because HE went to the father. Then we have this scriputre and just think how different things could be IF all that believe in the word of God, believed in this scriputre>?1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. WHAT does the manifestation of the Spirit mean? What did happen when the Spirit was made manifest? WEll look in Genisis, When the word of God was given, the Spirit moved upon the face of the earth. God spoke the word, the Spirit made it manifest. Just as when we speak the name of Jesus, the spirit makes it manifest. What rose Jesus from the dead? The spirit, the holy Spirit of God. |
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Date: 4/30/2002 1:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Dizzy not necessarily but it could be many things not necessarily a miracle. I am not exactly sure how to word what it is I am trying to express but just because something happens that cannot be explained doesn't mean that it was something miraculous and one person is blessed anymore over another person. I guess that is what I am getting at. Although many of the thumpers would like to believe that someone is truly blessed because they have recovered from a illness and doctors can't explain it or they walked away from a mangled car without a scratch on them. It is MY belief that NO MATTER how you believe and what you believe in, you are going to go at your own time. For example someone says "If you weren't driving drunk my son would be alive today".....NO he wouldn't if he were meant to be alive my car would have driven right past him and never hit him if THAT is how it was meant to be. In other words it was meant for me to make the stupid mistake to drive my car under the influence and take someone else's life in doing so. For me it is a life lesson to face the consequences of my actions and live with the fact that I was responsible for the demise of another person, for the person that I killed it was their time to go. If it weren't their time to go then they would still be here. Now am I saying well live on the edge and step out in front of a bus cause if its not your time you will be saved....NO...common sense plays a factor, but there are certain things that we cannot control without so called playing "God" ourselves....our birth and death are examples. People like to explain any kind of medical mysetery or something outrageous that happens where there is no explanation as a miracle. That is fine...like I said let them call it a miracle if that is what they want. I prefer to just believe that what is meant to be is meant to be and that there is a reason behind everything even if we can't logically explain it... |
Date: 4/30/2002 3:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 48809
I believe in healing. I have seen others healed and I have been healed myself. I believe that the healing power comes from God , is transmitted to the healer and is then passed on to the person or animal that needs it! I know there are many unusual amd unexplainable things that happen in the world. However, I believe that what we call "miracles" are events that are simply caused by a natural law that we do not yet fully understand or know how to operate! Posey  |
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Date: 4/30/2002 5:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
AZ: no one SAID that when it was your time to go that you wouldnt go, but as you said about us Thumpers, yes, we believe in the LORD JESUS and in HIS power. I'm sorry if you dont. I would rather beleive in this than what some mystic tells me. There is a force higher than us, that does still perform miracles today. I have to get off line for a few, i'll be back later. |
Date: 4/30/2002 11:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 37900
There are (too) many people who claim to have a divine gift of healing that do not; their displays are adaptations of parlor tricks and mass hypnosis. The $1000 suits and $5000 smiles align perfectly with society's pre-occupation with appearance. In my experience, not everyone who is healed has perfected mind control. My father, for example, was instantly cured of cigarette smoking without specifically asking for it. (He smoked two packs a day; his lungs had degenerated so much, he was coughing blood.) I lived with him, so I know he wasn't into self-hypnosis. In fact, he had seen so many charlatans in his life he was not impressed by every dog-and-pony show that came to town. After that night, he never had another cigarette. My grandfather quit smoking by sheer force of will and confessed that he had to battle it every day afterward. My father had no such battle. Miracles come from God; the use of hands is optional. Miracles may not occur as often as Benny Hinn claims, but they happen. Great post!  |
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Date: 5/1/2002 9:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
FB, I have a few questions to ask you now. I realize what we disagree on, but others may not. For simplicity's sake, pls answer them for me :) This will clear up any misunderstandings about where you and I are coming from (opposing Christian sides of this issue). 1) 2 Tim 4:20 "Erastus remained at Corinth, but Trophimus I left sick at Miletus." We all know that Paul had miraculous gifts ... with healing being one of them. Why was Trophimus left at Miletus, if they could heal him? (one could assume that SOME member of Christ's church there should have had this gift as well ...) 2) A Christian is not promised any "release" from sickness, merely grace to endure it. If healings were for EVERYONE at any time, Paul would have been cured of this "thorn in his flesh", wouldn't he? (II Cor 12:9) 3) Jesus PROMOTES the use of physicians! Matt 9:12 "But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick." (Yes, this statement has a much deeper message, but the easiest msg to understand is that the sick need doctors) Why would Jesus promote physicians IF His chosen people were to always have the gift of healing? 4) The same people who were to heal the sick were ALSO able to raise the dead, drink deadly poisons and survive, and handle serpents. (Mark 16:17-20) Why are the "healers" today doing none of these things? 5) John 20:30-31 states that the signs and miracles which were written within his book are there so that one may have the knowledge and come to the belief that Jesus is the Christ. With very little logical thinking, one can infer that these signs and wonders (including healing) were done as proof of Christ's divinity and saving power. What are today's healings proof of? Congregations which practice miraculous healing are healing their OWN members, not unbelievers. Or, when "healing" unbelievers, they are soliciting $$$. Why? 6) Some say that the miraculous gifts are still available to any Christian today. I don't agree with that statement, partially because all truths have been delivered "once and for all" according to Jude 1:3. Miraculous healings were ONE way in which this message was "backed up" or "proven" when it was being delivered. Since these miracles were done to prove the "truth" was being delivered at that time, what reason is there for these same miracles to be done today? Why do these same groups claim to have new "insight" or "knowledge" of the truth? *whew* I think those should be enough questions for tonight :D |
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Date: 5/1/2002 9:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
Sry for writing a book :D Also, I am NOT talking about God never, ever, ever healing people. I believe I referred to the power of prayer earlier on this post. God can heal anyone He wants to of any sickness or disease whenever He chooses to! |
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Date: 5/1/2002 9:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
I just thought of one more question. 7) Why are there no "complete" and "instant" healings like these today? (John 9:1-11, Matt 15:30, Luke 7:22, Acts 3:1-10) |
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Date: 5/2/2002 9:59:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
if any of you have wondered why I haven't responded to this in a while, it is because I don't know what to say to the biblical quotes... |
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Date: 5/2/2002 10:00:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Posey-- i think I agree with you more than anyone :) |
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Date: 5/2/2002 10:04:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
azairyia-- I used to think that way, now i am undecided about it. |
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Date: 5/2/2002 10:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
Sorry Dizzy :P I wasn't trying to confuse anybody! Honest! :D |
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Date: 5/2/2002 3:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 48809
Thank you Dizzy, I am glad you agreed with what I had to say. Paranoid, you asked why there are no "instant healings today?" There still are some today just as there have always been, but I think those that practice healing sometimes prefer not to make this known because of harassment and ridicule from others! I have seen instant healings , so I know they are still in evidence! Posey |
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Date: 5/2/2002 3:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
With severed limbs reattached, dead raised or people blind/deaf/etc from birth healed? PLEASE show me some documentation on that, Posey. |
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Date: 5/2/2002 6:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
OK part two. You said a christian is not promised any release from sickness. You talked about Pauls thorn in the flesh. If you will re read that, you will find that he was buffetted by satan so that pride would not come over him. No one said, dont go to a doctor, I go to doctors, many do, but then I also know I was healed of hypoglacmia at one time. In Isaiah were told that JESUS, well, here read it< Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."" AND as well in the new testament::1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. We WERE healed, its up to the personal person rather they accept it or not. NOW, Genesis 20:17 So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare children." NOW God healed Abimelech and the rest of them. HOW much more will HE do for those OF US that are HIS children? Acts 28:8 And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him. Acts 28:9 So when this was done, others also, which had diseases in the island, came, and were healed: SEe a little more healing above. Mk:16:17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Mk:16:18: They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. THIS SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW THEM THAT BELIEVE. I"m a believer paranoid, and we that believe, this signs do follow. IF you are not seeing any of Gods miracles, I'm thinking its because of one of two reasons. One your in an unbelieving church, two because of your doubt and unbelief. Many many many of we believers have seen these things have experienced these things. I'm sorry if you have not. you might want to ask God why, when your praying tonight. Part THREE coming up. |
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Date: 5/2/2002 6:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Paranoid, for one, can we not make our self sick? If we over eat, or eat something that was not cooked right, dont we get sick from it? It does not say what he was sick from. Many sickness and disease we are told in the word of God comes from satan. Some are not. Plus you have to take in to consideration, rather it was something spiritual on his part, or rather he felt as lots of christians do today and that is that we are unworthy. If a person is NOT willing to recieve something then chances are they will not. I cant give you the reason why this man was still sick, why anyone didnt pray for him or if they did. Only God knows. But then, why pick on the few that were sick, why not talk about ALL those that WERE healed? |
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Date: 5/2/2002 7:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
The reason why Jesus would say what he did about Physicians, and you also know the meaning of that scriputre, that Jesus meant those that are believers do not need healing, only the sick, or what he was meaning only the unsaved, needed HIM. But none the less, even Jesus knows that not all have faith, why do you think he gave doctors such smarts? If you will notice in the bible it even tells us that Jesus could not heal many in his own town. Why?? Because of the doubt and unbelief. Now I'm not into those bless me churches. I mean that IF all they are doing is laying hands on the ones in the church, or taking care of those IN THE CHURCH, to me that is not good, I call those churches bless me clubs. WE are suppose to go out and preach to every creature, lay hands onthe sick and do the works of Jesus. WE cant do that, sitting in a pew in a bless me club. Tell ya what, I'll see if I can find some stuff for ya, and send ya the links. AND people today are, I REPEAT ARE doing those things. I dont know why you are not seeing any of it. Healings today ARE PROOF of God and HIS word and HIS power! WHY shouldnt we have that? WHAT has changed? ARe there still unbelievers? YES, are there still those that need to be healed? YES MIraculouse healings today ARE ONE WAY in which the message is STILL backed up today, still PROVEN today, tell me what has changed?? |
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Date: 5/3/2002 4:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 48809
Well Paranoid, I really don't keep any records of what other people do, so if you require that much proof you will have to look it up for yourself. I will tell you that I have seen people healed from cancer, broken vertebrae in the back,hemorrhoids, sprained ankles and many other ailments. The only one that I am aware of that can produce the type of healing that you ask about is Jesus! ( and I can't PROVE that, but I believe it happened!) If we have any in the present day who can do this, I am afraid that I don't know about them! Can you produce documentation that these things do not happen yet today? Personally, I do not limit God in what He can do! Just because I do not know about it, or am unable to do this myself, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen to someone else! Posey |
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Date: 5/3/2002 8:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Firstborn did I say YOU were a thumper.....LMAO.....DOWN Woman....You know if Cat and I come out to Utah together (she is cooking up something, she asked me the other day if I would be able to get rid of my kids for 4 days...LOL) I am gonna have to slap you for that one. I didn't say that there wasn't higher power and I didn't say that miracles don't exist....What I said was that I would not call them miracles...:) |
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Date: 5/3/2002 8:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
PS if we go out for a night on the town will you be bringing the bible with us....LMAOOOOO....You know I am just teasing ya hon and I love ya to pieces....:p~~~~ *hugs* |
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Date: 5/4/2002 5:38:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
veeeery interesting views from all of you... |
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Date: 5/6/2002 8:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
AZ:: LOL, DOWN WOMAN?? lol, ok come on big girl, I'm ready for ya, I'm the king of the forrestttttttttt. I'll get you and your little dog tooooooo! Lordy been watching too much of the wizard of Oz. Slap me, OH PLEASE dooooooooo, as I've always said, no pain, no gain. ROLFLMAO. |
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Date: 5/6/2002 10:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 34476
Hey FB... I am not going to refute or offer any rebuttal to your replies because I wish for all to see both sides of the argument. If anyone ELSE wishes to do so, feel free :) Dizzy, I believe we may have given you more to think about ..... :D |
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Date: 5/6/2002 10:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 27046
LMAO! |
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