Date: 5/29/2002 3:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
so its okay to go drink, do drugs and have lots of sex, and lie and cheat and steal, but as long as you love God, its okay?  |
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Date: 5/29/2002 3:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
I was just saying on that post why should those people put on an ACT when GOD knows what they are really up to? Whats the point? |
Date: 5/29/2002 3:17:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
No Dizzy, I;m not saying those things are ok. EVEN IF ONE doesnt believe in God, some of those things are not ok as its one body they are hurting, it is wrong to steal, it is wrong to lie, to cheat. Doing the drugs, doing the smoking doing the drinking is up the the person that does them as ITS THEIR own body they are doing it to. Having lots of sex can cause aids, so no, its not right. THE point I'm trying to make here is that Christians are NOT perfect as some of you would suppose. AND I'm with you. WHY lie on usm or anywhere else about what YOU DO OR DONT DO in real life? You all have read my posts, heard me talk about myself. I dont try to hide who I'm or what I do.  |
Date: 5/29/2002 3:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 46530
For all that you have said above, which I agree with by the way, I still find it slightly hypocritical that the people who do go out philandering, drinking, smoking who knows what etc go to church every sunday morning and say words along the lines of "Forgive me lord for I have sinned" and are supposed to repent those sins. If they have sinned, enjoyed it, are thoroughly unrepentant and have every intention of doing so the next Saturday night then that is surely hypocrisy  |
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Date: 5/29/2002 3:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 46530
and I respect both of you in this btw. |
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Date: 5/29/2002 3:21:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
And yes, its bothers me when people do this, as its wrong to sit and lie. When I first came to usm and I was on range riders post making a comment about drinking as there was this BIG debate about if chrisitans should drink. Well the bible says, to not practice drunkeness. To me to practice drunkeness would be to do it everyday, all day long. I find nothing wrong with drinking. I even told the people on usm that I drank beer when I felt like it. AND then WHAMMMMMMMMMMM here came the smart butt replies of, OH how can you be a bible thumper and still drink!! WHat has one got to do with the other. Does drinking stop what I believe? |
Date: 5/29/2002 3:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 26733
No Dizzy, you can smoke, drink, do drugs and have sex and if you later ask for forgiveness then its ok. My thing is where is the Judgment part come in if all someone needs to do is ask for forgiveness - why would the all merciful god only forgive some people for sins and not others – does ‘he’ pick favorites? Just a curious question, have a peachy day :)  |
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Date: 5/29/2002 3:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 46530
drinking, even to excess, is not neccessarily against the bibles teachings. Drinking til you start to hurt others is against the bible as I understand it. |
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Date: 5/29/2002 3:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
I agree with Farleys!!! |
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Date: 5/29/2002 3:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 9130
I never said Christians have to be perfect, we all know that NO ONE is perfect :) |
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Date: 5/29/2002 3:30:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
farleys: I see your point but if they from the heart really think they have sinned and want to ask to be forgiven they should have this right. MY question what is SIN?? IS drinking a sin, no I dont think so, Is smoking a sin, no I dont think so. Is dancing a sin? No I dont think so. NOW the thing with the neighbor?? Yep, thats a sin. ANd I'm with you, one that keep doing it and keeping doing what they KNOW to be sin, and thinking oh hey its ok, I'll just ask to be forgiven on sunday, to me that is PREMEDIated sin and it makes me wonder. |
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Date: 5/29/2002 3:31:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
BoomBoom: see this is the reason, people NEED to control their flesh as best as they can as they will think the same as you that HEY its all Good, but one can go so far the other direction even after HAVING known God, that they can commit blaphsmey of the holy spirit, and No,hon, they wont be making heaven. |
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Date: 5/29/2002 3:33:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
drinking too much for all people can be a bad thing as some of them get really MEAN and hurt people. I mean the Bible even tells us that when Noah got off the ark, he got drunk! Now I'm not saying this is a good thing to do and do it everyday, I'm just saying If I was noah, and went through all that and had to smell those animals all that time, I would have got drunk too. |
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Date: 5/29/2002 3:35:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
I'll be off for a little while, have to go cook some tamale pie for supper. Carry on and I'll reply when I get back. |
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Date: 5/29/2002 3:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 46530
LSr was kicked out of her church because of just that thing firstborn. She hadn't divorced when we started going out together, and hasn't been back since because in her heart she cannot say that she is repentant for being with me which is technically sinful, though her husband hasn't been there for her for years now, so the marriage was basically over, just not in the eyes of the church |
Date: 5/29/2002 4:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
I don't condemn a christian for drinking, smoking or any of the vices. However, I will blast the you-know-what out of those who put on the "love thy neighbor" and preach about not judging, or quote scriptures and talk on one hand, about the marvelous love, power, and grace of God, but at the same time, they gossip, tell lies, and manipulate, and twist and decieve. Deb, I told you about a woman (a relative of mine) who is this holy and Godly christian (in the eyes of everyone around), this woman I found out was stealing my uncle (88 years old) blind. When I confronted her about it, she went berserk; screamed obscenities at me that no dockworker would utter; and accused ME (she don't know anything about me!) of some horrible crap (ask if I was sleeping with my own uncle). GUILT was written all over that woman's behavior! I can't stand it when a pedophile gets nailed for molesting kids in the church or beating a child, then tries to justify his actions with some scripture, or gets all huffy, irate and tries to make out like *I* am the "rude" "mean" or bad guy.
I never ever said that Christians (or anyone) is supposed to be perfect, so do not go there. BUT, it seems to me, that THERE IS SOMETHING to the fact, my dear friend, SOMETHING to the fact that I've experienced MANY Christians who will not fess up, will not admit anything, will not practice what they are preaching, won't take responsibility.  |
Date: 5/29/2002 5:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 30743
Ahem.. lol. Okay, addressing your questions and some of the responses I've seen here... I do sin, I am a sinner.. Yeah, I drank two beers two weeks ago, got a little tipsy, sure I enjoyed it, sure I will do it again in the future. Does that make me a drunk? No, lol, it doesn't. I even sin when I'm with my boyfriend, but we won't go there, lol. The point is this: There is one very bad sin that I have a penchant for, and everytime it happens that I fall off the wagon, I ENJOY falling off.. but then the remorse sets in... So yeah, I enjoyed my sin, knew I was sinning, felt remorse even as I did it.. but it didn't stop me. Some might say my love of what I was doing was greater than my love for God or that I'm a hypocrite for that. I do not consider it so. After it is done, I am nearly eaten alive by guilt, and I pray that God forgive me. A month to a year may go by before I fall off the wagon again, that does NOT mean that I prayed remorsefully for forgiveness while I wasn't honestly remorseful for it, nor does it mean that I swear not to do it ever again. I don't make bargains or promises with God that I can't keep. Not anymore, lol, after finding out how hard that is.. Anyway.. My being Christian doesn't mean I don't fall off the wagon, it doesn't mean my flesh doesn't ENJOY the sinning.. BUT it does mean that I FEEL spiritual remorse for the sinning. My body, even my mind, may want the sin and enjoy it, but my spirit overwhelms me with remorse. To me, the body and mind is constantly at war with the spirit in which God lives. Thankfully, my spirit wins over my body and mind more often than not.. :D Most of all... Just because I fall off the wagon, even enjoy it... doesn't mean that I don't feel true remorse. :D Love ya, BIG MONKEY HUGS!!!!  |
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Date: 5/29/2002 6:42:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Farleys, I see the reasoning why the church told her to leave as she was doing what they and God consider wrong. HOWever, If a church can NOT be more helpfull in helping her during this time of her need, then she doesnt need them. The thing that I would do If I was in her shoes, and I kind of sort of was, except the situation was reversed, is if she is divorced, there is NO reason for them NOW to keep her from going to church. WHAT Good is a church if its only for those that are spotless? If a church cant handle people with in its walls that have real problems in their lives they are not much of a church. All they are , are a bless me club. And even if she hadn't already started divorce, they could have still been there for her, to talk to and see if they could help, if not to help save her marriage, which looks like it wasnt going to be in the first place, then to stand by her during this time of her need. |
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Date: 5/29/2002 6:46:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
I know what ya mean thinker and I agree. Just like in my church I went to in texas, it was Praise God, and what can we do for the LORD, which I AGREE ON, what would God have me to do to help people that need help. But then these same people would look down their noses at the 23 kids that we had taken in to live with us, because they were not dressed as proper as they thought they should be for church. Oh they all had clean clothes on, but some were a little more worn torn than they needed to be, but it was their BEST and they were CLEAN, yet I didn't see these people saying to these kids, hey can I buy you some clothes, or even give you some of mine? No, they praised God on one hand, Prayed for their own healing, prayed for lots of things and then stood by and did NOTHING to help these kids. |
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Date: 5/29/2002 6:48:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
For author only, NO you dont make me mad. AND your right, if it wasnt for the GRACE of our lord JESUS we would be in a world of hurt, but even we christians that love the LORD with all our hearts soul and minds, STILL Screw UP> Thank God for Grace huh? |
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Date: 5/29/2002 6:50:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Monkey:: HOn, you said it better than I could ever have. I know what you mean and that too is one of the points I was trying to get across. Thanks and may the Lord Bless you. |
Date: 5/29/2002 7:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
I have a problem with the "I am not perfect, jus forgiven" attitude when it is used as an excuse for bad behavior. I had a problem with my Catholic ex-husband, sinning M-S, and then on Sunday, going to confession, doing his "penance" & starting the week all over again. I have a problem with "the devil made me do it", or "the devil tempted me". No, the PERSON tempted the person, true? Everyone has some charater flaw. Everyone engages in a behavior someone else objects to. I think the anger comes when one attempt's to justify, or explain away their bad behavior. For example: remember Jimmy Swaggert? The tears pouring down? "I have sinned", when caught with a prositute? He felt SO bad, he did it again. And, when his Ministry credental's were pulled, he simply joined another denomination, rather than follow his former churches ban on preaching, and being alone with people to council them. He's rabid supports screamed that "satan" was trying to discredit this "Man of God!".No, he was caught, quite literally, with his pants down. Debbie, this is going to be a tough debate. Because I know you believe in the forgiveness of Jesus Christ. But it is too bad , some of the more "colorful" christians have kinda given everyone a black-eye. ~JMO~  |
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Date: 5/29/2002 7:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
I also know that you have taken garbage for associating with, ie: talking to & be-friending non-Christians. That is such a small-minded attitude, in my opinion only. |
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Date: 5/29/2002 7:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
BTW- good post |
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Date: 5/29/2002 7:48:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Ya know lsg, your right as far as this is going to be a tough debate and I cant tell you how many "stanchy" christians that have walked away from me here on usm because of their holier than thou attitude, their YOU are wrong and thats all there is too it attitude. I mean when I post something and they can SHOW me where I'm wrong through scriputre I will listen, but if the scriputure they are using does not bear up, then I'm not going to poo poo them and say oh yes, I see it that way, when In fact I dont. I've been called a person that cant be chrisitian as the way I and so many other that are like me, do things, why gee, gosh darn, thats NOT the way they do it in their church, thats NOT the way their preacher says its done. Now yes, I believe that a person can do things that they are truely sorry for and ask God to forgive them because of the guilt they feel inside. And yes, I believe if they are asked, God does indeed forgive them. I dont like it when they take NOOOOOOOOOOO blame for their actions as everything starts out in the flesh and in the mind. Yes, I believe there is a satan but NO I dont believe he is the cause of all man kinds bull, lies, cheating ,stealing. I'm sorry for the ones of my breathen that want nothing to do with me because I believe that yes EVEN christians are human and believe me when I tell you, eventually I find out that, hey, they are too,just in secret but I'm here to tell them that EVERYTHING that is done in secret will always be found out in the long run. Yep, I've been be-rated for having friendships with the non christians on this site, but ya know, my heart is still with Jesus, always will be. Now I figure this way, IF I'm doing so much wrong, well hey, thats up to God to tell me and decide what is to be done with me, but ya know, for all the "stancy" christians I have walking away from me because of words such as these that I have posted, I have triple the amount of kids ages 11 and on here at usm that are coming to me wanting to know about the lord Jesus and the power of His might. Why do they come to me? Why do they talk to me? Because they know I'm not going to condemn them for being human. Thanks LSG> We have had our moments my "fighting sister" and always will, but we do know where each other stands. |
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Date: 5/29/2002 8:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
*puffs up with pride* Awwww, THAT'S my friend, Deb! Atta girl, my friend. I love you. Yeah, I'm saying it here on USM. You're great, and I wouldn't take a heap O Monkey's Nanners for ya! Big smoochies, Big HUGS, Cat |
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Date: 5/29/2002 8:41:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Ah Gosh, THINKER< NOW youve gone and made me blush!! Hey I dont care who knows it either. Thinker is one of my best friends in the whole world. I've got lots of slack from that, but I dont care, she is kind she is good and she is a lady! I wouldn't trade you either sweetie, big "smooch" to you too! loves ya. |
Date: 5/29/2002 9:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 42519
Wow... Farley has a great point.... In the Mormon Church, It is against our religon to drink alcohal, drink caffene in large quantities, smoke, have sex before marriage, etc. and for a reason, people think that is wierd, odd, or they just simply look down on us. I was talkin to WhatdidIsay22, He is a good mormon boy, he explained it all to me. The basic reason we dont believe in it is cuz it does no good. There is NO good in drinking, NO good in smoking, NO good in philandering, yet we sometimes do it anyway. And Farleys has a great point. To ask the Father for forgiveness when you are just going to do it the next week isn't asking for forgiveness, its like asking permission to do it again and all he can do is say "Okay, I would rather you didn't but you don't hear me anyway, so whatever". That is why the Roman Catholic churches quit indulgencies. If any of you dont know, I learned indulgencies was you pay for your sins. You went to the church and you had to pay money to the church in order for your sin to be forgiven. Well eventually, people started to pay for their sins even before they committed the sin. The church back then liked the money so the church didn't do anything, but what was the point. But why is it when I go to church, *which is rare* I see girls there who will talk about the hot party they went to and this Cute guy they slept with, and have the NERVE to take part of the Sacrement.... anyway, I will start to read more of the replies and continue on with my replies.... Love ya tonz.  |
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Date: 5/29/2002 9:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 42519
LOL@MOM for Noah gettin Smashed!!! |
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Date: 5/29/2002 9:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 42519
Applause for LSG, Thinker, and Nanners! |
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Date: 5/29/2002 9:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 42519
This reminds me of this time I was in a chat room. I received this PM that said "Do you know your bible" and I replied "Sorta" **this was just after I had met Dave, but before he came home from D.C.** and he said "Why are you on the internet and not studying your bible" **I could tell this guy was a total Hypocrate** I just replied "Why aren't you?" and he said "Because I know my bible." The guy really bothered me, but it goes under the heading of Don't Preach what you Practice. If you Practice it, then why Preach it?? Great post mom. This is definately a thinker **No pun intended thinker** LOL.. Love ya tonz mom.. Ya comin to Graduation tomarrow?? Its at 2 p.m. at Richfield High School... Love ya tonz. |
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Date: 5/29/2002 9:25:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Mags, it was the mormon church that kept me from the LORD for so long as all I could see was a bunch of hipocrites, you forget I was born and raised in mormon country and the same ones I would see running with wild wild women, or macho men and drinking and cussing on a saturday night was the same ones I would see looking down on me when they walked out of church come sunday morning. NOW I wasnt judging them cause they drank, smoked, and fooled around, I was judging them by the "holier than thou attitude they showed to me and anyone else that didnt belong to the mormon church. The church is full of bunk, if they EXPECT any one to pay them to get rid of their sins. Just like the catholic church goes to the priest and asks to be forgiven. JESUS FORGIVES and he doesnt ask for money, and its a shame that so many that speak in his name do. AS far as the SACREment, I feel really sorry for those girls because if they knew what it really meant and what they were doing when they partake of this in that type of manner they wouldnt do it. LOL mags, these are my friends. Thinker is my best bud. Oh wow, mags if there is anyway to make it I will. But it all depends on sues work time and who has the car at the time. REguardless, congradulations and take some pictures so I can see them too. Hugs love, love mom |
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Date: 5/29/2002 9:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 42519
Well, the indulgencies were taken YEARS AND YEARS back... Old Roman days... and yes I think a lot of Mormons are Hypocrates, but we aren't all that bad.... |
Date: 5/29/2002 9:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
Hi Debbie,
My mom always said "There has only ever been one perfect person...and they died on the cross" I'm not perfect...in fact I'm exceedingly far from it...but I'm at least honestly trying. Maybe thats all that matters. Peace,  |
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Date: 5/29/2002 9:46:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Mags lots of people that are not christian are that way too, and I dont think Mormons are bad people its just as I said, the way they acted toward myself and others AFTER they got out on church on sunday, made me not even want to talk about God, if this was how people were. Love mom
Hey Agent:: good to hear from you. Your mama was right. And yes, all we can do is try as God knows our hearts. |
Date: 5/30/2002 6:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 19092
Churches are full of horrible people, it's just a gathering of a bunch of sinners. I'm not like them and I'm better than that, that's why I choose not to go...heaven forbid that I be seen with the likes of them...did I stereotype that OK???  |
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Date: 5/30/2002 9:29:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
You did a right fine job King. And this is the point I'm trying to make also, we are all sinners, saved by grace. NOT OF THE LAW, SHOULD ANYMAN BOAST. not yelling at you king, just woke up had to see what I was writing. |
Date: 5/31/2002 6:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 10915
Reading this very long (lol) post and reviewing all the arguments thereof, I would think that it only boils done to one well known, yet forgettable fact: DO NOT JUDGE!!!!!  |
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Date: 5/31/2002 6:52:00 AM
From Authorid: 10915
It is very sickening when people do that too. You are a christian! You shouldn't be doing that! Newsflash: You aren't suppose to be doing it too, so who are you to judge another for being imperfect? |
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Date: 5/31/2002 8:46:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Amen Girley, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. |
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Date: 5/31/2002 8:48:00 AM
From Authorid: 10915
Amen to that Firstborn! LOL |
Date: 5/31/2002 11:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 15033
Sis, you are leaving out the scriptures that tell us to rebuke our brothers and sisters. Even Nathan did that for Daniel (I think it was Daniel. So what about that?  |
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Date: 6/1/2002 12:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 15033
Okay, it was Nathan and David in 2 Samuel 12; The prophet Nathan openly rebukes David and stirs him to repent. I'd much rather not have to say anything to someone I see doing something wrong, but I am blatently honest and tell it like I see it... and I like when others do the same for me. That way, if it really isn't what it looks like, I/they atleast said it and I/they can clear it up. |
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Date: 6/1/2002 10:45:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
Proverbs 27:5 ¶Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Ecclesiastes 7:5 It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.
1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Titus 2:15 ¶These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. |
Date: 6/8/2002 8:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 29928
Boy I found this post late..sigh..BUT I agree with you FB 100%. Saying we are Not perfect, just forgiven is NOT an excuse, it is a FACT! We are by no means perfect, Lord knows I am far far from it, but like you, I do keep trying and I don't give up. It's like a diet..so you cheat today and eat that chocolate cake, do you just throw the towel in and give up, or do you just resume the diet tomorrow and go on. I choose not to throw in the towel!!! God fills my heart and soul everyday, but even so, I will NEVER be perfect, nor do I make any attempt to be..I try, but I always fail. Do I wallow in self-pity and guilt because of it..Nope. I learned along time ago just how self-destructive that is. I smoke, hey I even drink from time to time, does that mean I love the Lord any less or does He love me lesse...NO! I just keep trying to get it right and I don't give up! Hugs,  |
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Date: 6/8/2002 4:03:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 16671
THANK YOU s.ROSE |
