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The Origin of Christianity (VERY long, read it with an open mind!)

  Author:  15319  Category:(Debate) Created:(6/26/2002 10:40:00 PM)
This post has been Viewed (9644 times)

Just where DID Christianity come from? This question has plauged mankind for hundreds of years. Most point to the Bible, stating that with the coming of Jesus came the coming of Christianity. However, we have a serious issue to consider. Before getting to that, examine this example:

Author A writes book X 100 years ago. 50 years later, Author B finds book X and edites it, turning it into book Z. Who gets credit, Author A or B?

Author A does, naturally. After all, he DID write it first and Author B simply edited it to suit him and marketed it as a whole new creation. Such is the case, some argue, with Christianity, or more specifically, with Jesus Christ himself.

Many argue that Jesus Christ never even existed, that he is only a myth, created hundreds if not thousands of years ago as a figurehead. For your informations sake, I will present some other religious figures, (Which predate the Christ of the Bible by hundreds of years, hence the Author A and B). Is it possible the early Christian Church borrowed from these legends to create its Savior? I'll let you decide. These excerpts are taken from a webpage, whos addy I will list furthur down:

~*Buddha*~

-Although most people think of Buddha as being one person who lived around 500 B.C.E., the character commonly portrayed as Buddha can also be demonstrated to be a compilation of godmen, legends and sayings of various holy men both preceding and succeeding the period attributed to the Buddha.-

~The Buddha character has the following in common with the Christ figure:~

* Buddha was born of the virgin Maya, who was considered the "Queen of Heaven."

* He was of royal descent.

* He crushed a serpent's head.

* Sakyamuni Buddha had 12 disciples.

* He performed miracles and wonders, healed the sick, fed 500 men from a "small basket of cakes," and walked on water.

* He abolished idolatry, was a "sower of the word," and preached "the establishment of a kingdom of righteousness."

* He taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all.

* He was transfigured on a mount.

* Sakya Buddha was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered for three days in hell, and was resurrected.

* He ascended to Nirvana or "heaven."

* Buddha was considered the "Good Shepherd", the "Carpenter", the "Infinite and Everlasting."

* He was called the "Savior of the World" and the "Light of the World."

~*Horus of Egypt*~

-The stories of Jesus and Horus are very similar, with Horus even contributing the name of Jesus Christ. Horus and his once-and-future Father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable in the mythos ("I and my Father are one"). The legends of Horus go back thousands of years, and he shares the following in common with Jesus:-

* Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger, with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

* He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old.

* Horus was also baptized by "Anup the Baptizer," who becomes "John the Baptist."

* He had 12 disciples.

* He performed miracles and raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.

* He walked on water.

* Horus was transfigured on the Mount.

* He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.

* He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the Messiah, God's Anointed Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of God, the Word" etc.

* He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish

* Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."

* Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One,"

~*Mithra, Sungod of Persia*~

-The story of Mithra precedes the Christian version by at least 600 years. According to Wheless, the cult of Mithra was, shortly before the Christian era, "the most popular and widely spread 'Pagan' religion of the times." Mithra has the following in common with the Christ character:-

* Mithra was born on December 25th.

* He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.

* He had 12 companions or disciples.

* He performed miracles.

* He was buried in a tomb.

* After three days he rose again.

* His resurrection was celebrated every year.

* Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."

* He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."

* He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.

* His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.

* Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.

* His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

Others with startling amounts of info that is Christ-related in this include:

* Krishna of India

* Odin of the Scandinavians

* Quetzalcoatl of Mexico

* Baal of Phoenicia

There are about 15 more, I won't list them all, just a partial list. Many "Godmen" of the world have had their birthday on or very near to December 25th.

This is because the ancients recognized that (from an earthcentric perspective) the sun makes an annual descent southward until December 21st or 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops moving southerly for three days and then starts to move northward again. During this time, the ancients declared that "God's sun" had "died" for three days and was "born again" on December 25th.

The ancients realized quite abundantly that they needed the sun to return every day and that they would be in big trouble if the sun continued to move southward and did not stop and reverse its direction. Thus, these many different cultures celebrated the "sun of God's" birthday on December 25th.70 The following are the characteristics of the "sun of God":

* The sun "dies" for three days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops in its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.

* In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin."

* The sun is the "Light of the World"

* The sun "cometh on clouds, and every eye shall see him."

* The sun wears a corona, "crown of thorns" or halo.

* The sun's "followers," "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.

* The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30°; hence, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.

* The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified," which represents its passing through the equinoxes, the vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.

Zeus, aka "Zeus Pateras," who we now automatically believe to be a myth and not a historical figure, takes his name from the Indian version, "Dyaus Pitar." Dyaus Pitar in turn is related to the Egyptian "Ptah," and from both Pitar and Ptah comes the word "pater," or "father." "Zeus" equals "Dyaus," which became "Deos," "Deus" and "Dios" - "God." "Zeus Pateras," like Dyaus Pitar, means, "God the Father," a very ancient concept that in no way originated with "Jesus" and Christianity.

There is no question of Zeus being a historical character. Dyaus Pitar becomes "Jupiter" in Roman mythology, and likewise is not representative of an actual, historical character. In Egyptian mythology, Ptah, the Father, is the unseen god-force, and the sun was viewed as Ptah's visible proxy who brings everlasting life to the earth; hence, the "son of God" is really the "sun of God." Indeed, according to Hotema, the very name "Christ" comes from the Hindi word "Kris" (as in Krishna), which is a name for the sun.

Horus's principal enemy - originally Horus's other face or "dark" aspect - was "Set" or "Sata," whence comes "Satan." Horus struggles with Set in the exact manner that Jesus battles with Satan, with 40 days in the wilderness, among other similarities. This is because this myth represents the triumph of light over dark, or the sun's return to relieve the terror of the night.

The word Israel itself, far from being a Jewish appellation, probably comes from the combination of three different reigning deities: Isis, the Earth Mother Goddess revered throughout the ancient world; Ra, the Egyptian sungod; and El, the Semitic deity passed down in form as Saturn. El was one of the earliest names for the god of the ancient Hebrews (whence Emmanu-El, Micha-El, Gabri-El, Samu-El, etc.), and his worship is reflected in the fact that the Jews still consider Saturday as "God's Day."

"What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!" -- Pope Leo X

This post was not intended to destroy, defame, offend, insult or harass. If this has done so, forgive me, it wasen't my intent. My intent was to give this up for grabs as food for thought, to be read with an open mind. I've read this and more and still believe Jesus Christ existed. Am I being a hippocrit? No, I never stated I PERSONALLY believe this, nor will I state it. I hope that this made you think, as it did me.

References:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

http://www.truthbeknown.com/christ.htm

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Date: 6/26/2002 10:49:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    Thank you for your enlightment but of course I still believe that Christianity comes from "Christ," as in Jesus. I will never believe otherwise. :o)  
Date: 6/26/2002 10:51:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15319    I'm not asking you to You Choose. I believe otherwise myself, I'm simply stating what is supposed to be proven fact. And it is, in fact, proven that these other religious figures predate Christ by a great margin.  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:01:00 PM  From Authorid: 42519    That is really interesting. I am not offended at all, but it really makes you think doesn't it?  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:01:00 PM  From Authorid: 19875    *Blinks* Isis was a virgin? Um, thats odd, considering that she had sex with Osiris to bring him back to life after he died. Mirtha's symbol was the bull, and he was a god of war. Budha was a prince who gave up royalty to find True Enlightenment. Horus was around before the Earth was here, and the universe was created by his mother (Isis) spilling milk while she was feeding him (I don't know, don't ask me how milk becomes stars). There, that'll do for starters...  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:03:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15319    Dartsya, your statements do not present evidence to debunk what was written hundreds of years before the beginning of Christianity. Bear in mind this is NOT the way I believe, so you guys don;t come in here busting up on me.  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:05:00 PM  From Authorid: 42519    Dartsya, I dont think that is true, If im thinking right, isn't Osiris and Isis egyptian myth? I dont remember this too well, so if I get the story wrong, then im sorry. didn't Osiris' brother get mad at him, chopped Osiris up into 14 different peices and spread them throughout Egypt, and Isis had the alligators put him all back together except one peice? how does the sex with Osiris come in? Not tryin to be rude, but kinda refresh my memory?!  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:07:00 PM  From Authorid: 19875    I'm not Christian, in fact I'm almost anti-Christian. I'm just saying that alot of this is untrue, and I'm sick of people saying things when they only go to one source and don't know what they're talking about.  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:08:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    I'm not offended by your post, hope you didn't think I was... :o) I guess it's just a personal choice to believe or question what you wish to. There may be proof of these figures predating Christ but how valid is that proof and what makes it superior to the Bible? I guess this is an issue for some but it's not for me. I do appreciate your perspectives though. :o)  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:11:00 PM  From Authorid: 19875    Isis finds 13 parts of Osiris' body, but one part, a rather vital part to a guy, she can't find. So she makes him a new one and then sleeps with him and that somehow brings him back to life. Keep in mind, the Egyptians had a rather...interesting mythology.  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:12:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15319    Thank you You Choose. Just as Christians will NEVER be able to prove Christ, non-Christians will likely NEVER be able to DIS prove Christ.  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:21:00 PM  From Authorid: 15621    Hello, I will say this....if this is a debate?...let me see....yup.......And you are saying that Jesus is a figure "made up from these other accounts"....then you cant just say it and expect us to believe it just because they have things in commom....you must show us he didnt exist  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:23:00 PM  From Authorid: 15621    Could you please show us where this info comes from?..was Buddha a Carpenter?..or just called one?....Who considers Mary the Queen of Heaven?....When did Jesus Literally crush a serpents head?.....Im not buying it yet  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:23:00 PM  From Authorid: 19875    *Dances around signing about how half of the information here she knows for a fact isn't true*  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:24:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    You make a good point Dark Angel, no one can prove that there is a God. We can only find out for ourselves. ;o)  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:26:00 PM  From Authorid: 17516    Very good post DA. I would say that I believe Jesus was not made up completely. Most myths have a grain of truth. I am sure that a historical Jesus existed and that some of the stories about him have some basis in fact. However, the gospels were not written in a vacuum. They were written decades to almost a century after the fact, in Greek (not Aramaic the language of Jesus and his followers), and they were written to gain believers, not as a history. In their efforts to make their hero able to compete with local gods, the authors of the gospels may have borrowed these supernatural details from other belief systems. History at that time was not as rigid. In that I mean that everything was not documented and verified. Even the most famous historian of that time Josephus included bizzare, supernatural details in some of his accounts. So do the histories of Julius Caesar. Today, we glean the mundane facts from these histories and leave the supernatural. Why? Because ordinary events only require ordinary proofs, while extraordinary events require extraordinary proofs. This is why I can accept a historical Jesus, but not a supernatural one. There are no extraordinary proofs to support the claims made about him.  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:32:00 PM  From Authorid: 15621    Greek (not Aramaic the language of Jesus and his followers"...KK, could you please tell us (im really interested) how you know this?  
Date: 6/26/2002 11:49:00 PM  From Authorid: 7830    Wow, fascinating information! I defenitly believe that christianty was taken from som other religion and molded to fit someone else's ideas. Great post!  
Date: 6/27/2002 12:44:00 AM  From Authorid: 48858    It is amazing to see how the world scoffs at the old myths yet how willing it is to pick up where these ridiculous stories left off. The religions of today are as myths of old...ways to make us feel better. They are the reason we can get up in the moring, face another day. They are believed for comfort's sake. And I say this from personal knowledge. Think: where would you be without your beliefs in the "unknown"? If someone proved without a doubt that no Jesus EVER existed...what would you do? Where would you be then? I find it interesting that so many are not even willing to ask themselves these questions. As if asking alone will condemn you to an eternity of torment. Greek, Egyptian, Norse, Celtic, Indian, African, Chinese...these myths are ludicrous. And one day the modern "myths" of the western and eastern worlds will be laughed at as much as the old. Maybe man should give up on his search for the divine and try to search for himself. ~*~Lievout~*~  
Date: 6/27/2002 12:47:00 AM  From Authorid: 14226    altough this has nothing to do with jesus but does with christianity.. Have you ever read or heard of the ancient sumerian story/text of 'The epic of Gilgamesh'? and I belive but have not read myself other stories from mexico and I think there is one of ancient egypt telling of a flood. Love lots,  
Date: 6/27/2002 1:00:00 AM  From Authorid: 48858    All throughout world myths there is a story bout a main flood. ~*~Lievout~*~  
Date: 6/27/2002 1:21:00 AM  From Authorid: 15033    Who brought to light for us the information on all the other divine one's? Was there not an author A and B involved in each case? How does anyone know for sure the information predates Christ?  
Date: 6/27/2002 7:28:00 AM  From Authorid: 19875    Budha was born of the queen (or the equivlent) and no one ever claimed that she was a virgin. He went in search of enlightenment and never actually became a God. Budhist's try and do what Budha did. Find enlightenment. Egyptians didn't baptize anyone when they became 30, mainly because no one could live to 30 unless they were the odd freak out. Horus had a hawks head (Or a falcon, I cant remember which) and thus his symbol was: A hawk. Beltain become Easter, Beltain was a celebration of the harvest and fertility. Not a holiday of Mirthas. Set, hmmm, which God was he...the crocidile headed one? No....not the jackel..thats Anubis....I had a point but I won't express it until I have sorted out which God Set is (which animal, not what he does). Yes, that will do again. Mainly because it's early morning and I can't drag anymore obscure facts out of my brain right now.   
Date: 6/27/2002 11:11:00 AM  From Authorid: 23610    Excellent post and well written. It is only when one really does some studying and research that they learn of the blending of myths and the "coincidence" that Christianity just so happens to contain similar stories.  
Date: 6/27/2002 12:04:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15319    Thunderhead in answer to you, they KNOW it predates Christ because the datings of the writings were well below 0 A.d., the "unofficial" time of Christs birth. Dart I would like to see just how you KNOW that this information is half-untrue. And on that note, what about the OTHER half? Six Gun, Who calls Mary the Queen of Heaven? Ask any Catholic Priest. The information comes from the 2 sources I listed, read it yourself to see. I'm not stating I PERSONALLY believe Jesus never existed, but lets be honest, aside from the Bible itself there is really no other proof. Surely someone as important as the Son of god walking around would have had SOMEONE else report on it?  
Date: 6/27/2002 12:58:00 PM  From Authorid: 11240    Well, TDA, I come in peace even though we have had disagreements in the past and I know you do not want me to comment on your posts. But I do have something to say. The Old Testament makes reference to the prophecy that became the story of Jesus. With no evidence to the contrary, who's to say that other "tribes" of people scattered all over the earth did not have one among them that was given this same prophecy? That is, that the Son of God would arrive here on earth one day. I don't have a problem in believing in Christ AND in the revelation that his coming was trumpeted since the beginning of mankind and communicated in whatever language, stick drawings, hand gestures, that gives us these stories today. I also find the "coincidences" you site to the nature of our universe, the zodiac, etc. as not to hamper my belief in God or Jesus. My personal belief is that a coincidence is a message from God. God Bless.  
Date: 6/27/2002 12:58:00 PM  From Authorid: 11240    Well, TDA, I come in peace even though we have had disagreements in the past and I know you do not want me to comment on your posts. But I do have something to say. The Old Testament makes reference to the prophecy that became the story of Jesus. With no evidence to the contrary, who's to say that other "tribes" of people scattered all over the earth did not have one among them that was given this same prophecy? That is, that the Son of God would arrive here on earth one day. I don't have a problem in believing in Christ AND in the revelation that his coming was trumpeted since the beginning of mankind and communicated in whatever language, stick drawings, hand gestures, that gives us these stories today. I also find the "coincidences" you site to the nature of our universe, the zodiac, etc. as not to hamper my belief in God or Jesus. My personal belief is that a coincidence is a message from God. God Bless.  
Date: 6/27/2002 1:00:00 PM  From Authorid: 11240    Oops. Sorry for the double entry. God Bless.  
Date: 6/27/2002 1:37:00 PM  From Authorid: 19875    *Clears her throat* I'm not a sharp pointy object to be thrown at boards. Thus I'm not a Dart. Keep that in mind. Secondly, I know that at least half of this is untrue because I've actually done research into many religions, and the religions of old happen to be my area of interest that I read about alot. You should learn not to trust just one web site, read books, look up at least 3 different sites before believing just ONE. And half of this is true, at least from my studies. Mirtha was born in the Winter (thus the birth thing is right), he was born of a virgin and he had the 12 diciples. I'd like to add more detail, but lunch is up!  
Date: 6/27/2002 10:12:00 PM  From Authorid: 17525    Hey Dark Angel, Nice post. The churches "official" explanation for all this is that ....now get this.....Satan created these pre-existing myths to fool people so they wouldn't believe the REAL god-man when he finally came in Jesus. Okaaaaay. I posted a series of "coincidences" that touch on all these and more, a while back. You can check my history if you' like to read them. Keep it coming. DA. Peace,  
Date: 6/28/2002 7:58:00 AM  From Authorid: 55376    Dartsya is correct, go back and read the myths and the history of Buddha people. Beware of websites. This post is spreading falsehoods. Og
Date: 6/28/2002 10:07:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 15319    Og, I ask your forgiveness ahead of time for this, but actually I believe it was the Christian Church that is spreading falsehoods.  
Date: 6/29/2002 12:02:00 PM  From Authorid: 19875    *Wonders why DA feels that since the Christian Church can do it, she can do it*  
Date: 7/11/2002 8:37:00 PM  From Authorid: 25481    Wow! This is a very interesting post and I just learned alot about other things. Thats cool. Very good post. Ill still remain pagan and hold my beliefs to the god and the goddess :)  

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