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Date: 9/4/2002 12:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 10534
My friend didn't eat for a little while, and I didn't feel sorry for her. I didn't show it, but I was upset and dissapointed in her for doing that to herself. She's not even fat either. Sometimes I feel sorry for them, but most of the times it's their fault. Actually, all of the time it's their fault, but sometimes I can't help but feel sorry....  |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 12103
These people are sick..and need help is what i belive...yes they are doing it to themselves...but somthing MUST be wrong with them if they feel the need to starve or cut themselves or do drugs all the time.  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 10534
Oh for the drugs and cutting, it's their fault and I won't feel sorry for them. Sure, if my friend is doing it, I won't like it and I'll be really really sad that they're doing it to themselves, but it's their fault. Oh yeah, the same friend of mine that didn't eat for some days also used to cut herself. She's such an awesome person, I don't know why she'd do these things to herself... |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
i feel sorry for some drug addicts, depending on their circumstance, but in general, no, no sympathies because you're right, they do it to themselves...i've only known people that 'cut themselves' since being out on the net, and while i care for them and hate to hear of anyone harming theirself, no, no sympathy in general, because it is a cry for a ttention, and they do it willingly and so no, no sympathy, yet i still hate to see it happening, and would try to talk them out of it if i could  |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 33925
Dizzy..anorexia is not only a physical illness, but its a mental and EMOTIONAL illness..they dont just stop eating one day and that is it..There are events and emotions that lead up to this..as far as cutters..Have you ever read WHY a cutter cuts themselves..what their frame of mind is?  |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 46005
You know...... I say it's them making the bed, let them lie in it. They can eat if they want too - I dont cry , moan and groan because I SMOKE and I cought in the mornings. I do it to myself. you're right Dizzy, people never can admit they are the ones at fault. You would be amazed.....  |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:26:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Its like with anorexics, no one has them tied to a chair starving them to death. They can eat when ever they want. Just because they want to be thin and starve themselves does not mean that i should feel sorry for them in any way.  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:27:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Alexanders Momma-- thats a good point! LOL |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 46005
Dizzy ---- same with fat people, they dont have to eat - they want to eat! |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
as to anorexia....i don't know..that along with bulimia...they do it to themselves. and even though it's a medical condition, it 'becomes' a condition, the way it starts is by them willingly either throwing up or not eating. the mind gets used to it, the mind might take over and make it a condition, but at first, they do it to themselves willingly. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 46005
my husband told me about a girl he use to date- well went out with one time who was a cutter. She took the butter knife during dinner and started cutting her arm!!!!!! He said he reached for the knife, and she snapped out of like a trance..... WEIRD. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:28:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Heather-- yes! That is a GREAT point-- and Alexanders Momma-- your point about overweight people is a good one too |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 13897
hmm i don't think it's easy to "just quit doing"... it's more complex than that... but i don't think they are victims of anything... it's just not easy to quit.  |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 53748
As a recovering Anorexic I want to say I don't care if you feel sorry for me or not. I worked hard to get over my problems and I am continuing to work to stay healthy. When an addict looks in the mirror they do not see themselves any differently but when I look in the mirror I see myself as weighing 300pd regardless of what I weigh so Mental illness and Addictions are two different things I admitted to myself along time ago I needed help and I got that help but it is harder than saying QUIT DOING IT many times there are underlying problems that takes years of counseling to fix and the first step is to admit that you need help.  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 46005
YEAH DIZZY AND SMOKING IS HARDER TO STOP THAN HERION,,,,, grrrr. |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 35114
I think it is hard to not feel sorry for them. Because it is human suffering. But I have to agree. Pity only fuels thier fire.  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 46005
Ghost, sorry to hear that , but as a recovering fat kid, I looked in the mirror, and was always hungry - I went on a diet, a good diet, and I still felt fat --- even after I lost a lot of weight, but you know what ---? Even though I thought I was fat, I never once thought about NOT EATTING, or starving myself..... and I have no pity for anyone that does, because if I could go threw life as a child being called names, then any adult can do it, and if not they are weak, and your right they do need help! |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:32:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Magenta Blue-- we all have things about us that we do that we'd like to change... some things being much more difficult to change than others. But does it all have to be classified as mental illness or physical illness?I am slightly obsessive compulsive about some things. Its like I know I could make myself quit doing these things if I REALLY wanted to, but it is difficult once you get into the HABIT of doing things. i think things like anorexia...etc. are sort of the same way for some people. Its a hard habit to break because you are in a certain mindset... am I making sense? |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 46005
see even know some people cant take the blame..... it was illness. If it was an illness that caused this than your stomach would forcefully make you puke. Or your mouth would refuse to swallow. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:35:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Blue Fire Ghost. I do not think that anorexia and addiction are all that different at all. I consider anorexics to be "addicted" to losing weight" they are "addicted" to changing the way their body looks. How is that different than a guy addicted to heroin? |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 46069
then you are one of the lucky ones Dizzy .. if you can just tell yourself to stop doing something and actually stop doing it... when people are mentally or emotionally ill... alot of them are not capable of stopping... being in the right frame of mind has alot to do with it  |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 39350
It's not that easy for them to just stop. It may be easy to say stop but it's haerder to do. I do feel sympathy for them because these are illnesses. Also anorexic people are also encouraged by society and magazines..*huggs*  |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 35720
I know what you're saying Dizzy, but it's just really hard to understand unless you've been through it.. you get into the disorder feeling in control of everything.. and you just end up more out of control than ever.. yeah you're doing it to yourself but it really has to do with hate for yourself and I feel bad for those who hate themselves.  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 13897
yeah that makes sense...i'm only speaking from what i've heard. i've never been an anorexic. i suppose if they reaaaally tried, they could stop. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:46:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
CKLovebug-- But how much is society to blame really? I mean I have actually sat and thought about that. Hmm. that will be my next debate:"How much does society affect us all" (nobody steal my idea! :P) I just do not think that any of us should be pointing the finger at these magazines...etc, when we have the free will to do what we want with our bodies, ya know? |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 20104
Agree.  |
Date: 9/4/2002 12:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 2030
I have sympathy for those who can't help themselves: Victims of crime or conflict, abused and neglected children, those suffering from incureable illness. Beyond that we are all pretty much on our own, I don't know that "Stop doing it" is the answer in all cases. But "Get some help to stop doing it" could be.  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 46069
now there is the difference..just what BCAR said... if they don't try to get help.. then is when i do not have sympathy for them |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 2030
And Society is not to blame for any of it, and is a huge cop-out. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 12:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 53748
I absolutely agree with BCAR I cannot feel for those who suffer from this and refuse to get help. Seeking help is the hardest thing in the world I have ever done but I made it and I know that others can too. The don't need your pity or mine they need counseling and support, believe it or not society has little to do with it if a person is predisposed to Anorexia they will battle it regardless of what is shown on TV just like an alcoholic (which is also classified as a mental illness) who will want to drink no mater what is shown in a magazine or on TV. |
Date: 9/4/2002 1:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 42792
I am not in a sensitve enough mood to respond to this within the guidelines here.  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 1:08:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Everything is classified as mental illness these days... That annoys the heck outta me... |
| Date: 9/4/2002 1:23:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 Why is it the more society accepts a certain behavior by labeling what used to be labeled bad or stupid or suicidal as an addiction the more frequent that behavior occurs? Society is to blame. If we would start condemning stupidity, instead of sympathizing with it, there would be a whole lot less of it. Does anybody over 40, like myself, remember anyone cutting themselves when we were in school? Og |
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Date: 9/4/2002 1:24:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Someone (whatever ADMIN YOU ARE) had best QUIT MESSING WITH MY POST. I CAN ADD WHATEVER NAME I WANT TO THE TITLE OF THIS POST. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 1:26:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Og-- Veeeery interesting comment. |
| Date: 9/4/2002 1:28:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 Dizzy, throughout my years in jr high, high school and college I never knew anyone who cut themselves. Probably because if they had they would have been labeled an idiot. Og |
| Date: 9/4/2002 1:28:00 PM ( Admin ) There is plenty of evidence that more than validates these behaviors as compulsive or even worse a chemical imbalance. They can have deep rooted patters that are not normally controllable by simple decision processes. Many examples exist in nature that disproves the theory that you can just decide to stop a compulsive, addictive or chemical induced behavior. Now there are also examples where you can but that doesn't prove that everyone has that ability. As with any illness the most harmful perspective is deliberate ignorance because it doesn't lend itself to any sort of recovery mechanism. |
| Date: 9/4/2002 1:30:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 Why the sudden epidemic of cutting? Og |
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Date: 9/4/2002 1:31:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Og I am actually thinking about your comment-- it does seem like the more people are coddled about certain problems the more frequently they occur. If things like this were not as "accepted" as they are, would there really be so many people doing these things I wonder? |
Date: 9/4/2002 1:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 53500
Sort of agree. People, especially in the US take responsibility for nothing. It's soceity, it's their parents, it's the media. So I don't have sympathy for those folks. As far as the topic goes, I have a very generalized sympathy for them. I mean really I think it's pathetic, and take pity on them. But ultimately only one who wants help can help themselves. So if that person is willing and making an effort to change, ok, I'll be more sympathetic. But I don't hand out sympathy for free. SUEDE  |
| Date: 9/4/2002 1:37:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 What we have is a liberal mindset that states there is no right and wrong. That behaviors are genetic, or compulsive or society is to blame. This promotes more, not less, unacceptable behaviors. Have you ever seen a three year fall down and start crying and then after a moment turn and look to see if anyone is paying attention. If no one is noticing the child he usually immediately stops crying. Someone shows sympathy he will get back to crying. We have a lot of three year olds in our society. Og |
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Date: 9/4/2002 1:40:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
BRILLIANT example Og! I can't add anything to your comment, you stated it perfectly. *all hail Og's comment* Sorry I am in a weird mood today, idnore me...lol |
Date: 9/4/2002 1:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I agree to an extent. Many people have more control over their minds that others do. Take myself for instance, it took a long time to get over some of my complusive behaviors, like looking at the medicine bottle three times before taking a pill, to get the pill in your mouth, ONLY to spit it out and look at the pill, take out the bottles once again to make sure you did not make a mistake and take the wrong pill. I have a great fear of pills. Still do, however, I dont have to go through all of that anymore. I too use to cut myself, rather than HURT anyone else or speak my mind when I was angry. I dont like hurting people, or making them mad, LOL, as you can see I HAVE changed!! LOL But it takes will power in ones mind, its not a switch that can be turned off and on. I dont think we that have these problems should be coddled, but I do think that one should understand the reasons why they do them and not judge them too harshly.  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 1:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Og, well now you do KNOW someone that use to cut themself. Sure I was an idiot and have the scars to prove it. But many people are like me, they would rather HURT themselves then someone else. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 1:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 46069
i don't think these things are more accepted so to speak..its just more recognized now a days.. i mean many kids acted up way back when bt they never called it ADHD or whatever.. they chalked it up to lack of upbringing or a "bad seed" ... ok im getting off topic here.. but just like those things weren't recognized but are now.. so are these so called "illnesses" of cutting and so forth... all comes down to emotional stability.... |
| Date: 9/4/2002 1:48:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 FB,I did some dumb things as a youth myself, Mainly involving consuming prodigious amounts of alcohol. I never blamed it on anything but myself.Thanks,Dizzy, every once in a while I screw up and post a moderately sane comment. Og |
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Date: 9/4/2002 1:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 53748
Og In the past if you had a problem you hid it you did not bring it out and talk about it. Now days it is okay if you have a problem to talk about it where as 40 years ago if you had a problem it was hidden. (How many pregnant unmarried teens where hidden at an old aunts house back in the old days) |
| Date: 9/4/2002 1:51:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 Another thing, there were not too many kids either acting up or on ritalin in the good ole days either. This is really scary, I sound more like my Dad everyday. Og |
| Date: 9/4/2002 1:54:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 Kids who act up, cannot be hidden. The fact is when you take away individual responsibility,guess what, you get individual irresponsibility.Og |
| Date: 9/4/2002 1:56:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 I would like to thank Dizzy and LP (if he can see this from USM purgatory) for this post. Great post! Og |
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Date: 9/4/2002 1:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Thats just it og, I'm not nor have I ever blamed it on anyone. Some of us cope differently and hold things in. Feel sorry for us? No, understand? Perhaps. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 1:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 42792
okay I have a bit of composure now to be able to respond. In the past, I was an idiot and did things such as this. Darn, that was embarassing, anyway...I came to the realization that I was being an idiot. Now, my perception of this has changed. Self mutilation is selfish and ignorant. No matter how it is handled in society, there will always be people who still do idiotic things. It annoys me to hear so many people say that the only reason we hear about this stuff so much now is because people are finally paying attention to it and that by doing that there is hope for change. How hard is it to realize that that type of thinking just feeds into such behaviours? That is what a self mutilator wants...attention. It is some sort of cry for help, yes, but its main goal is to attract attention. Negative attention is thought by most of these people to be better than no attention. One other point is that many of these people wouldn't ever think of doing this if it weren't for the fact that it is so publicized with sympathy that an attention seeking person (regardless of why they are seeking attention) sees this behaviour as an opportunity to fulfill their selfish needs. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 1:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Dizzy, one thing I dont agree with, YOU say, just stop. It is easier SAID then done. PEOPLE WANT to stop some of the things they do. Take my husband, I have the worst insomina of anyone I know. He can go to bed, close his eyes and ten seconds later be snoring. I WANT to go to bed and fall to sleep. But I cant. I cant fall to sleep until my brain is so exhausted that its close to passing out. So I WANT to go to sleep, but can NOT. So yes, its easier said then done. EVEN If I close my eyes in bed, I will toss and turn for hours and hours and hours, and it doesnt matter if I'm only running on three hours sleep from the night before. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 2:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
Yo Dizzy, Actually...Anorexia and Bulimia are BOTH classified illnesses/disorders within the DSM-IV (Psychiatric Diagnostic Manual). Once something gets into the realm of Mental Illness and Disorder then often it simply ISN'T a case of just changing your behaviour...the brain is FAR more complicated than that, FAR more controlling that a mere "Ahhh...snap out of it" will not change the dynamics and decisions of it. But SUPPORTED assistance will. Heres a 'for instance' for ya: I work with someone who has a Mental Illness...they are recovering quite nicely. But many years ago, during a period of deep psychosis, this kind gentle person killed her grandmother...whom she totally loved and adored. She then proceeds to gut the grandmother, cuts up her remains and nicely packages them as individual portions in Freezer Bags in the freezer. Now...did that person REALLY make that decision to do that?? Or was that person completely overtaken by the psychosis?? I would say it was the psychosis. Anorexia and Bulimia are ALSO a form of psychosis. Now to what I personally think...personally I kinda agree with you. Too often I feel this society is only too quick to absolve people from their responsibility. I've been a self-harmer in my past...I never once played the victim though...that was a private thing between me and my instruments of self-harm. I work with a number of people who self-harm...what I do is teach them to take responsibility for it...to dress their own wounds...to keep their blades etc clean and sharp so as to reduce the likelihood of wounds becoming infected. I'm not telling them to 'Snap out of it' or 'Don't do it'...rather the message is 'If you do it, take responsibility for it'. See, I think there is a BIG difference between SYMPATHY and EMPATHY...when we feel sorry for someone we are often expressing sympathy...and sympathy can be a very disempowering thing. Empathy however is different...empathy is a connection, a 'supported' sorrow of sorts...like saying "Oh yeah, wow that must really blow...hey how can I help" - thats Empathy. "Oh you poor poor thing" - thats Sympathy. Sympathy hardly ever evokes positive change anyway...so in a way I agree...if you are gonna show anything to a person, don't show sympathy - show empathy. Peace,  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 2:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
well said agent smith!! Bravo! |
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Date: 9/4/2002 2:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 42792
AS...I think it is just absurd to tell someone to keep their blades, etc. sharp and clean. I could just never imagine telling someone to do that. What is next, lessons on how to cut so you don't slice a major artery? Humor me please, but that is simply ludicrous to do, in my mind. |
Date: 9/4/2002 2:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 39139
I agree that the people bear some responsibility for what they are doing to themselves, but i also believe that if someone has a problem such as anorexia or self-mutilation, then there are deeper issues that must be examined. These people need help and shouldn't definetly shouldn't be made to take all of the blame for what they are doing to themselves. I just don't think people with mental illnesses shouldn't be help to the same stnadards of right and wrong as people without the illness. ~Beth~  |
| Date: 9/4/2002 2:19:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 Obviously, even idiots need treatment. Og |
Date: 9/4/2002 2:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 50864
I don't and I agree with you Dizzy and it goes far byond the things you mentioned here  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 2:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Og, yes hon we do. heheh Go back to samantha now and leave the talking to the un-sheep people! heheh |
Date: 9/4/2002 2:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 15997
I dont think I feel sorry for anyone thats causes harm to themselves...I just cant bring myself to understand what a person who is anorexic is going through and thats what makes me feel bad. I had a friend who would make herself throw up all the time cause she thought she was fat....she would also cut herself, and numerous times she tried to commit suicide...It's definitely a mental illness and as much as I tried to help her I couldnt. I didnt feel sorry for her I felt sorry cause i couldnt help...I couldnt make her see that was she was doing was wrong....but a person with an illness like this just cant stop even when they want to...cause they dont see themselves as others do. Its in their head that they are this or that and nothing anyone says helps...sd to say even with professional help she didnt get any better.  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 3:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 2030
Stupidity is now a mental condition? I'm going to apply for medical leave. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 3:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 2030
And Og as another over 40 type I don't recall cutting being very prevalent in my day. Pabst Blue Ribbon binges yes, but as I recall that wasn't due to deep angst and depression, I believe we were out to have a good time. We have become a very depressed society and we put ourselves there- of course depression is another popular "fad" malady. |
Date: 9/4/2002 3:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 45630
I have no sympathy for drug addicts although I'll be the first one to help them get over there addiction. I am sympathetic to anorexia though. But only to an extent. These people are doing this so they can look better but they soon get pulled into a game that they can no longer stop. They are deluded and don't know what to do. People with Amorexia don't ask for help until they want it and that's when I feel sorry for them and wish that I could do something. I am not a bleeding heart but I will do what I can to help someone out. I know I had people help me out when I was in trouble coz I was an alcoholic.  |
Date: 9/4/2002 3:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 18527
sigh I'm 24 and I can't recall anyone "cutting" themselves in school... and as for stupidity, I have very strong feelings on that... but I will keep them to myself... (can we say IQ test before you have kids...)  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 3:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
Yo NKA, I think you miss my point. I am not condoning cutting at all...rather I am trying to ensure that IF they cut...IF they make the choice to cut...then they are NOT going to do even more harm to themselves than they already are. Having been a cutter etc myself I know the pull of it...I know that as screwed up as it may appear to someone else the act of cutting actually satisfies some need within themselves - or else they simple wouldn't do it. I also know that my telling them to simply NOT cut is not going to change their minds one iota. But I'll tell you this NKA...I have had MORE success in encouraging people to move on from the need to cut by placing the responsibility for it sqaurely in THEIR lap...not mine. Its a bit like people having sex with multiple partners...one night stands etc...I may not personally agree with it, but IF thats what they choose to do, then they can at least make it a SAFER choice. Of course the safest choice would be NOT to cut, but HELLO - reality calling - peeps do things that hurt them, peeps do things that are bad for them...and they WILL keep doing it until they learn to take control of it themselves...part of learning to take control is to first learn to OWN what harm you are doing to yourself...first indentify what it is and how to REDUCE that harm...from there it grows easier to move away from that activity altogether. Facts speak for themselves NKA...and in my day to day experience...yes...thats right...actually working through it WITH cutters DAY TO DAY...how I work WORKS...whether people think its ludicrous, absurd or whatever. Peace, |
Date: 9/4/2002 3:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 30051
*surprize* I agree with you Therapy is a good thing  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 3:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
...oh, and back at ya NKA...what would YOU do?? Ignore it and let their cutting with dirty blunt blades cause infection possibly requiring amputation...or at the very least leaving grotesque scarring they will bear for life?? Sorry...I think THAT is absurd. I think it is absurd to think that someone will simply stop doing something that is harmful to them WITHOUT first taking control/responsibility for what they are doing. Humour me now please...what would YOU do?? I might try it and see if it works for the people I care for. Peace, |
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Date: 9/4/2002 3:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 42792
AS, I commend you on your ability to be around people like that everyday and if your way of handling things works then that is good however, I stand by what I said for me, from my point of view. I could just never in my life imagine saying that to someone. I agree that it is necessary for those type of people to take responsibility for their own actions. I just don't think that it is always a profound mental disease that causes them to do it. I suppose for some it is but for the most part I think it is selfishness and ignorance. From my observations in dealing with people like this in society and from being an idiot and doing it myself, this is what I have come to believe. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 3:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 42792
I say that if someone is going to cut themselves then they should be the ones to carry the burden of chance as to whether they will get an infection or have to have an amputation. Maybe that would make them hit bottom and once you hit bottom you can only go up whether that be through death or facing reality. I just have no room in my heart for sympathy for these people. Before someone asks, yes, I have considered the possibility of one of my children doing this. Since they aren't at present it is possible I could change my mind but I think I would tell them the same thing. Hopefully, I will never have to find out. |
| Date: 9/4/2002 4:05:00 PM ( Admin-JGB ) Hey I thought that comment you used was from me! lol I still stand by it... Can't say you are a compassionate person from one side of your mouth and claim to have no sympathy for someone that is mentally ill from the other side of your mouth... look at it logically, if someone were completely mentally "with" it would they cut themselves, or starve to death????? Is that a "normal and sane" person??? The point isn't that we should let them die off, nor is the point that they shouldn't take responsibility for their own choices, the POINT is that it is an illness where by they can't "Just stop" and therefore they need help, not someone telling them they are rediculous for their behavior... and it itsn't just for attention either, because there are plenty of anorexics that get all the attention in the world and still die... so leaving them like a kid to cry it out doesn't necessarily work... IMHO. |
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Date: 9/4/2002 4:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 42792
maybe some of them want to die. |
Date: 9/4/2002 4:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
I must truly be out of things. I have never heard of cutting except here at USM. I'm a nurse and I've never even seen self mutilation, I have three grown daughters, one step-daughter and not one of them has ever done this, or had an eating disorder. Except to maybe over eat. There were times when I spent $200.00 to 250.00 a week on food and still wouldn't have any by the end of the week. Living in the mid west, I am curious now how prevalent this is in certain areas? I honestly know nothing about why it is done, other than what I read here. But doing harmful acts, such as self cutting, I would think one would need treatment, as much as someone who abuses alcohol or drugs. Any act that causes or brings on self destruction sounds like someone who is very much in need of professional help.  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 4:56:00 PM ( Admin-JGB )
Isnt' going for weeks without eating anything substantial really the same as self mutilation? And the first time I saw "cutting" was in '85... but I bet it was around before then! |
| Date: 9/4/2002 5:00:00 PM From Authorid: 55376 I first heard of cutting back when my son was in eigth grade, overheard him saying some "stupid girl" was cutting herself. Not sure where my son got his insensitive side from. Og |
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Date: 9/4/2002 5:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 2030
Sounds to me like the boy is a realist Og. I wonder where he learned to keep his feet firmly planted in the real world? |
Date: 9/4/2002 5:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 42074
About being over-weight... some people CAN'T help that. They may have slow metabolisms, you never know, so don't judge on that so quickly. As for anorexia... that may not be their fault either, I mean, it is a MENTAL thing. They THINK they look fat therefore, they attempt to lose weight. Sometimes people just cant help it. I mean would you NOT feel sorry for someone for OCD? It's not their fault they have it.  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 6:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
If that last comment was directed at my comment, I said, "over eat, not over weight", actually they ate huge amounts and never gained. But I agree with that, metabolism is definitely a factor. |
Date: 9/4/2002 6:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 52140
I think it would depend on the situations. some people don't realize the things it can do for them.  |
Date: 9/4/2002 9:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
anorexia is a mental disease brought in the vary culture the victim supports  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 9:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
and also fat people dont always choose to be fat it could be the medicine there on or something along those lines thats genetic |
Date: 9/4/2002 9:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 27270
Agree  |
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Date: 9/4/2002 10:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
Yo NKA, Firstly...sorry if I came on a little strong there...I just get very passionate about my work and believe in what I do, and more importantly believe in those I work with. See...the thing is that you are right in some cases cutting is a selfish act - some even use it as a means of gaining some form of attention from others. But honestly, it has been my experience in this job of Mental Health that the majority who cut (or self-harm in other ways) aren't doing it for attention at all...nor is it really a sign of insanity. The wierd thing is that for the majority (and me) I work with (and I've probably worked with literally dozens and dozens over the years) it is not a sign of insanity at all...but rather a last ditch desparate attempt to regain/hold on to some sense of sanity. The initial pain snaps you/them out of their heads...it focusses their internal pain to an external area...so in a way they now have a 'reason' for the pain they feel...a physical site (the wound) they can look at and give that invisible internal pain a 'location'. And for many that is immensely comforting. When I self-harmed I never really felt the pain as such...as most self-harmers don't either...the pain 'registers' differently...for me (and for many of them) the pain was actually soothing in a way...it was like a hot bath that just relaxed (even 'cleansed') me/them. The greater majority of those I have worked with, and indeed all of those I currently work with who self-harm/cut do so because it is a VERY ingrained part of who they are...it has gone beyond mere habit to almost an embedded 'norm' or 'given' within their subconscious. For them, thats just what they do...thats just what they know. Digging to the root of that...the core of that problem takes time...a lot of time, trust, honesty, support, belief and lots and lots of hard hard work. So what I do is deal with the immediate harms/threats etc first. And the immediate threat of harm to a cutter is not just the cutting...but the damage that cut does. If they wish to lay down their blades straight away...then great, wonderful, but the reality is that isn't likely. So we have to minimise the harm that cutting does to them. Hence, I provide them with information...and information is one of the key cornerstones to recovery. Information is power. I give them information about how to dress their wounds (this also, as I have said places the onus of it all back on them). I give them information about blood bourne diseases etc...as its actually rather shocking to discover that some cutters actually share blades etc. So I give them info about not sharing blades...just as I would to a drug-addict not to share needles etc. The info pamphlets etc I provide them with also discuss things like how a blunt blade will tear the flesh and make healing of the wound that much more difficult...as well as increase the possibility of infection. This is just the start of a long process of helping someone deal with their cutting...of course conselling and psycho-therapy etc etc comes into play. But the number one thing is to ensure that person is being as safe as possible. Yes...its real hard to discuss these things with a cutter...but sometimes thats just what ya gotta do...and if its done openly, straight up and honestly then often its somewhat easier. The last thing I would want would be for those I work with to hide their cutting...to keep it secret because they don't want people to freak out or go overboard about it...then the problem might be out of sight and out of mind - but like all problems, if it is not addressed then it soon pops up to bite ya one day. Peace, |
Date: 9/5/2002 7:40:00 AM
From Authorid: 56715
Well I just have to comment, a little late, about society influencing these people..I just yesterday watched Oprah about the t.v., media, and music influencing younger people.I do not feel for one minute that is the case. If you are not mature enough or your mind can not understand that what society thinks is not always the way it should be that is no-ones fault but your own. If you are that impresionable as to others opinions then it is not society who is to blame but whoever is letting young people read these magazine articles about "Thin is in", or letting them watch t.v. about things they are not yet understanding . Just my opinion. And as for drugs how often does someone force you to try and then become addicted to drugs? Not very often so who can you blame there?  |
Date: 9/5/2002 1:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 7089
hmmm...well, i can't add anything to this thing right now. maybe later tho. cheers,  |
Date: 9/5/2002 4:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 4548
i'm glad this is finally being addressed. i couldn't understand the logic behind that particular comment either, because I AM a drug addict, and the idea of people feeling sorry for me is disturbing. i did this to myself, it is nobody's fault but mine. it wasn't society's fault, it wasn't mommy or daddy's fault, it was MY own fault. the last thing i wanted was pity. i think that's why a lot of rehab programs never worked for me. the idea of dragging Jesus, the 12 steps, and a family member into it was appalling to me. i didn't want Him involved in it, i wanted to get better FOR MYSELF, and i couldn't do that until I wanted to, and believe me, it took a loooong time before that happened. i ruined my own life. all the psychoanalysis in the world can't change that fact.  |
Date: 9/14/2002 2:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 49639
Phew it is difficult for me to answer this post. Yesterday, I looked at it and had to soak it in. My feelings are that to a certain extent YOU ARE RIGHT! People do play victim and every single person can seek out the best treatment possible. I was an addict, and let me tell you, I tryed everything to get "unhooked." Addiction is a disease. If i told you stories, perhaps youd understand. Unexplainable urges, SO POWERFUL, SO STRONG that I just gave in. I was in re-hab and everyone was crying, crying out for help because once this crap kicks yer butt, youre in deep pain. YET......the demon returns. It overpowers people. i think the only way to stay sober/ clean/ not self-mutilating is therapy and 12 steps. All and everthing to acheive a normal life. But it takes WORK! It takes surrender, it takes self disipline, it takes faith. DO I feel sorry for the addict? Heck yes! I KNOW how hard it is. But i also know there is a solution. If people grab onto that. its a matter of life or death sometimes. Addiction is VERY hard to kick. I wish I was wise as a young woman, and didnt experiment, but I did, and Im paying dearly for it. Everyone is different, some can snap out of it, most cant. GREAT TOPIC!  |
Date: 9/20/2002 3:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 16069
I cant help but feeling sorry for anybody that hates themselves enough to purposly harm themselves. If you dont love yourself, whats the point of anything? A sad exsistence.  |
Date: 9/20/2002 9:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
They can't always just quit.... if they could they would. Obviously, you have no addictions or habits that you feel fit into this category. If you did, you'd understand. NO ONE chooses to have every affliction they have. NOT EVERYONE can just quit. YOU must be in someone's shoes with these habits to know and understand. You are entitled to your lack of sympathy for people but in that, you also show your lack of humanity.  |
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Date: 9/20/2002 9:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
Boy, with all the lack of common human understanding on this post... I must be in the presence of perfection. People that JUDGE other's actions, especially actions that are done to themselves and not other's... should be ashamed. Just because some people are naturally thin, doesn't give them the right to determine who deserves sympathy and who doesn't. Be careful how you judge who deserves your compassion... you just may be the one needing and not getting it, next. I need to go and get a blanket not, due to all the cold-hearted lack of understanding on this post. |
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Date: 9/21/2002 1:05:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
I find it interesting that you assume that just because i posted this that i have no complassion or empathy... Oh well, judge as you wish |
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Date: 9/22/2002 2:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
As a human, I view characteristics and assess personality from that. I'm sure there are things you feel compassionately about but on this subject, you've not shown any. What we say portrays us in that light. I'm not saying you should feel sorry for people with any eating disorder, obviously, that's yours to give as you please. I'm just suggesting that some understanding and an attitude without persecution or ridicule, would be more productive. People with eating disorders, generally, aren't looking for your sympathy. They aren't wanting your approval of their actions, that's why it's usually a secretive affliction. I should know, I've been there. |
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