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Date: 10/20/2002 8:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 40543
Geez lol arguing logic..give me a sec to think about this and ill get back to ya on it.  |
Date: 10/20/2002 8:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
i find that the people who don't follow the masses/carve thier own trail get futher in life and tend to be stronger mentally and emotionally because they've had to deal with more... just because everyone things it's right doesn't mean it is...  |
Date: 10/20/2002 8:43:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 9130
Midnightly-- exactly. And who is to say what is right because they have only been TAUGHT that its right... just because we are taught that something is truth doesn't mean it is.  |
Date: 10/20/2002 8:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 37900
As there are standards of weights and measures that are beyond the influence of interested parties, I believe there are standards of morality and behavior that are not set by "the tyranny of the majority" or the insanity of the minority. Using only our understanding to determine what is right and wrong is much like Congress having the power to give itself a raise. Excellent post!  |
Date: 10/20/2002 8:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 49498
Midnightly, you said it perfectly. I agree 110%  |
Date: 10/20/2002 8:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 56057
I have a very open mind Dizzy, and I enjoy a good debate. I have strong beliefs and opinions on most subjects but I never discredit what anyone else has to say. How boring it would be if we lived in a world and everyone had the same opinion. We learn and grow daily and so do our beliefs and opinions, and we can only do this through contact within society. I believe we should listen to what is being said to us and then either adopt it or get rid of it. And about logic Dizzy, what is concrete in the world today. A lot of things can't be explained, for example: Mediums, God, Spirits etc etc, but these are believable to some, including me. So not everything has to be set in concrete to be believed. Thankyou for this great debate. Much love and big bear hugs....  |
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Date: 10/20/2002 9:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
This is where I am with religion and belief. If people want to believe something that you happen to disagree with, and they don't bug you about it all the time, let them. When you both die you'll find out, one way or another. This is what I think of as "passive" religion. People believe something, but they don't really let it rule their lives and aren't worried if other people believe something else. Most people are like this. The next level up are those theists that devote more time to acting on their beliefs (it would make sense to refer to them as "active" theists ) They run charities, help the homeless, help to send aid to starving nations, play music in Old Peoples' Homes and so on. These people do a lot of good things and deserve all the credit for their actions. This is a very positive aspect of religion. However, I can't help feeling that these theists are simply good people at heart. They act in a way that atheists would call Humanist - that is, they don't expect their God to sort out peoples' problems and so take up the task themselves. I think that many of these "humanistic theists" would be doing pretty much the same thing no matter what their religion or strength of belief. They realise that they are in a position to help someone in need, and do so. Not because they want to get into Heaven, or fear going to He double l , but because it is simply the right thing to do. Logic makes more sense.  |
Date: 10/20/2002 9:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 25390
Hiya Dizzy. I thought that since I'm getting back into the swing of things, I should start out with a Debate. *grin* Part 1: Personally, I know that some things we do in society affect the way I form an opinion. Is it wrong or right? Maybe it's neither. Maybe it's both. (I love being vague). For example, let's take religion. I form opinions directly related with what is around me. I go to a Christian college where the "norm" is being one certain kind of person with one belief. Generally, at this school, when one person jumps on the bandwagon, the campus follows suit. Part 2: all I have to say here is I AGREE. For example....if someone murdered someone else, ONE logical thing to do is to murder them as well. Does that make it right or wrong?  |
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Date: 10/20/2002 9:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
We can survive without all the mystical, superstitious and ceremonial trappings of religion, but I don't think we can survive without the simple belief that humans have the potential and the duty to make the world a better place for all. Remove all the magic, miracles, heaven, he double l, salvation, punishment, angels and devils from any faith and what has it got to offer the world that Humanism hasn't been saying all along? Humanism is entirely independent of all religions. It needs no ceremonies, Holy Books or incantations - it only needs a reasoning human mind. Humanism, no matter how old it may be, is a product of living humans and will therefore always be modern, vibrant and up-to-date. Nobody is advocating a return to the humanism of six thousand years ago (even if it were somehow possible to determine what that was). Religions rely on ancient history and are often reluctant to change. Humanism is what happens right now when reasonable people interact with one another, trying to help and not harm. It stands on its own. |
Date: 10/20/2002 9:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 13546
I think we should learn for ourselves what is logical to us or not. Society does NOT hold all the answers, although many people do think that way. I refuse to let society dicate to me what I can or cannot belief. It matters to me not what the most "popular" belief of the week is. No one can really jump out and say. "hey, this is right for you, because everyone else is doing it, and believing it" . We can base things on experience, and the knowledge we have gained from those experiences. It may be right for one person , and wrong for another.  |
Date: 10/20/2002 10:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 23610
I'll explain the way I see it this way....Just as standards of measurements such as distance, time and weight vary according to the motion of the observer (theory of relativity)....and thus are relative to the individual...so are spiritual beliefs relative to the observer. What may seem to be an absolute truth to one will not seem to be the truth to another. So, no I don't think that a person should conform to a belief system that is not their own whether it is the norm set by the majority or their culture or society. For one thing, it would probably affect their own self esteem and pysche to wander around feeling like a "fraud" for pretending to believe something that they do not believe in....and to feel that they would not be accepted or loved if people knew what they truly believed. Personally, I think that the "truth" is probably so far beyond our scope of total understanding that it would be ridiculous for us to think that anyone person or organization knows the total truth. I believe that each person can find their own way on their own. For some it will take a longer time and may be they will make some mistakes along the way....but those mistakes are part of life's experiences and growth of the spirit. So, I say let people believe as they believe and just as a person would want to be accepted and allowed to believe in their own way, then accept others and allow them to believe their way also.  |
Date: 10/20/2002 10:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 43586
good post, well, i think that, well no, not at all. I mean, i might not tell all of society the things i do that they may think as wrong (such as you know, esp and stuff, many christians see it as witch craft, and another thing is that i accept all religions, except those that are stating directly that the others are evil and wrong, or something along those lines. you know, i believe that a person is free and expected to believe what they see as right, except if that interferes with someones elses right to believe what they wish). I dont like following the crowd, i know whats right to me, if i think something is wrong then, i dont do it, or look more into it to make my OWN judgement. I DO NOT want to be controlled by society.  |
Date: 10/20/2002 10:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 21435
If certain people could look inside my head, they'd probably tar and feather me on general principles. Hmmmmmm..I may conform because I have to...and we all "have" to every now and then, but I form my own opinions about most things. I also believe that it is possible for "the majority" to believe the "wrong thing." Even Mr. Spock could not remain "logical" in all instances...lol..."Live long and prosper, Dizzy Me." ...Write on....  |
Date: 10/21/2002 2:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 30229
Who is to say WHICH side is "RIGHT"? No matter what anyone believes, or how agressive they are with it, there will always be those who disagree with them. The trick is to learn to "ALLOW" everyone in your life to their 'own' opinions and viewpoints, and assume they are right in what they believe because of THEIR reasons. Accep other people's opinions.. lots can be learned from that ...  |
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Date: 10/21/2002 3:44:00 AM
From Authorid: 59214
I follow my spirit, where ever it decides to go, I go. If I were a metaphor, I'd be the wind. I do what I want, I'm strong or weak, depending on the day. I can be slowed down, but no one can stop me or wield me.  |
Date: 10/21/2002 6:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 25828
no you shouldn't let anyone dictate what is right. in fact, if the majority thinks it's 'right' or 'normal' i always have to look twice at it whatever it is, it is already suspect ---  |
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Date: 10/21/2002 6:24:00 AM
From Authorid: 51635
Everone should make up their own minds and give a hang about what society thinks, however, if you break the law of the land that you live in you could go to jail or worse. History has shown us that whom ever wins is in the right. The only logical thing to say about logic is that it can be debated. No one can say anything is or isn't and be absolute about it. Everything is relative, based on perceptions or chance. Math is even debatable, numeric values are a matter of perception. .....  |
| Date: 10/21/2002 8:52:00 AM ( Admin-JGB ) is truth and logic self evident? is that what you are asking?? |
Date: 10/21/2002 2:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 15621
Can we help it if society does in small ways help us decide what to think, or make the desicions we make?  |
Date: 10/22/2002 6:37:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
Most of us don't use logical reasoning and maybe if we did we might be a better society I don't know. When we are grouped together in a society we naturally take on the societies views for the major part. It is what keeps society together. Individually we may even hold different views. Nothing is concrete... everything is subjective in terms of beliefs, ideas, and views. I see society, i.e. a local or national identity having a kind of life of its own. This explains the mob mentality to some extent. This is why 'freedom' is a hard thing to define and act upon. Technically we have freedom, but to act on this is another matter. To enjoy complete freedom we have to overcome many obstacles - family, peer groups etc. Sometimes we call something 'freedom' when really it is acceptance of restrictions, beliefs etc.  |
| Date: 10/23/2002 5:47:00 AM From Authorid: 17252 I don't let society dictate what is right for me to think. Usually I think different than most. |
| Date: 10/27/2002 1:55:00 AM From Authorid: 35060 Ideas don't just drop out of the sky ready made. peoples ideas are influenced by their environment. Though there are some abstract ideas like truth, justice etc. We all beleive in those don't we. |
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