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Date: 12/17/2002 1:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 39107
yeah they should  |
Date: 12/17/2002 1:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 14754
iam still undecided about this one...look at rosie...she has 3 kids now right?..  |
Date: 12/17/2002 1:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 38278
Of course they should. Just because children are raised by gay parents doesn't mean that they'll become that way too. It's all about how they're born. If they're straight, it doesn't matter who raises them. They'll always be straight.  |
Date: 12/17/2002 1:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
well, i want to say yes they should get all the rights others do, but when you think of it from the kids perspective...maybe they should be allowed to adopt only kids old enough to be asked if they want to be in a family like that. i know lots of kids would want to be adopted by anyone that loved them, but maybe some wouldn't - so , yes, they should be able to adopt if the child wants them to.  |
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Date: 12/17/2002 1:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
and i agree with flame on, being gay or not doesn't affect how well they raise the child, or the sexual preference of the child |
Date: 12/17/2002 1:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 58923
I think they should be allowed to adopt. Why not? It may be *odd* to other people, but women wearing pants used to be *odd*. I see nothing wrong with them adopting...  |
Date: 12/17/2002 2:03:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 55297
i see your points... good ones too! i now am undecided... i am riding the fence. its just that i dunna. if i die, i dont wanna have my future kids being adopted by gays. ya know wut i'm saying.  |
Date: 12/17/2002 2:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 41067
Nothing wrong with it at all. Even if a child does later on have homosexual leanings after being raised by a gay couple, whats wrong with that? If people really have nothing against homosexuality, then why should one more person with such feelings bother them? Enough digression though, I don't think that it would be bad for the child at all, the love for the child would b the same no matter what the sexual preference of the parents.  |
Date: 12/17/2002 2:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 22852
Yes I feel they should be allowed to as long as they are offering a home with love and respect then I say go for it. After all one does not choose to be gay.  |
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Date: 12/17/2002 2:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 22852
Oh and I have to ask.. what about all the people that are gay yet were raised by straight parents? |
Date: 12/17/2002 2:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 25183
I think that gays and lesbians should be able to adopt. A person's sexual preference DOES NOT make them a bad parent. The only reason that other children would laugh is because they have been taught by their parents and society to perpetuate the prejuduce against gays and lesbians.  |
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Date: 12/17/2002 2:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 58923
lol. Your right storm. I don't understand how people can think that if your raised by gay parents, that you will be gay. There are plenty of children raised by straight parents who aren't straight. I don't think the parent's sexuality really has that much to do with it. |
Date: 12/17/2002 3:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 49546
I agree with you 100% ....i seem to be the only one as well!  |
Date: 12/17/2002 3:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 45948
Think about it this way....would you rather have your future kids adopted by a gay couple that would love and support your child in all they do or by a straight couple that would abuse your child? It can go either way. being gay doesn't have anything to do with whether they would be a good parent or not. I say they should be able to adopt. They are humans too. That would be like saying i don't want a chinese person raising my kids because then they might like rice too much. that's just rediculous.  |
Date: 12/17/2002 3:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 38683
I don't see why not.   |
| Date: 12/17/2002 4:07:00 PM From Authorid: 56371 ANYBODY should have the right to adopt.It is discriminatory and un PC to claim otherwise.EVERYONE at one point is going to get teased for something,I'd rather have a child be teased than grow up in foster care.Goo. |
Date: 12/17/2002 4:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
so you think it's better to have 1 parent instead of two? you think it's better for hte child to live in foster care until it's an adult?? so do you think they should take kids away from gay and lesbians?? becuase what you say you sound like they shouldn't be allowed to have children in general.. and why is it someone elses right to tell someone just because of thier sexual preferance your not allowed to have a child...what if it was religion... a jew can adopt a christian child.. do you want that outlawed also?  |
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Date: 12/17/2002 4:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
love doesn't care about sexual preferance.. being gay doesn't make them unfit parents |
Date: 12/17/2002 4:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 12823
Personally, I am against it. I put myself in the shoes of a child and I would say I would not WANT to be the child of a homosexual couple. I would prefer to be the child of a societal normal mother/father union. My stepson lives with his biological mother and her lesbian girlfriend and it is really messing him up in the head due to that. To each their own but as long as the child agrees to it as well.  |
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Date: 12/17/2002 4:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 53284
I searched this topic on goggle and got a variety of hits. Those sites that were pro-gay seem to have a political agenda that outways their scientific support. Some sites were so far right that I couldn't believe the responses. The following quote is from a recent article that seems to be somewhat less political in it's view of the situation. "In some earlier studies of gay parenting, researchers have reported no differences between children raised by gay parents and those raised in heterosexual households. But in a recent paper re-examining data from 21 studies dating back to 1980, two University of Southern California sociologists say the studies downplayed the differences, probably because gay parenting is such a volatile issue. While the emotional health of both sets of children seems to be the same, the paper, published in April in the America Sociological Review, said the biggest differences relate to gender roles. Children of gay parents tend to depart from traditional gender roles and are more open to same-sex relationships, the paper said." Another article talked about some teens having difficuly with parents that had non-traditional lifestyle...  |
Date: 12/17/2002 4:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 6817
I have nothing whatsoever against them but I think if they did, the child would grow up very confused...  |
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Date: 12/17/2002 4:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 6817
If it were me...it'd humiliate me if my parents were gay. If I were gay I would NOT adopt but if my child ever asked me if it were okay to be gay I would tell them it was perfectly okay because everyone is equal in God's eyes. |
Date: 12/17/2002 4:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 54668
wouldnt that ruin a childs life? or their reputaion? ----EXCUSE me,but if i truely loved my parents (even if they were gay or lesbian) then i would NOT let a silly reputation get in the way of that.and i'm sure if a young child truely loved their parents,no matter what their lifestyles,then it wouldn't matter to them either.angeleyez has made a really good point as well....*hugs*  |
Date: 12/17/2002 5:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 19092
Absolutely NOT!!!  |
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Date: 12/17/2002 5:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 6817
Heck, I'm confused and I have straight parents! I can't imagine having gay ones! Really guys don't take this offensively I like everyone honestly. I would just rather my parents be straight. I really LOVE and want kids right now. About 5 kids. But if I were lesbian or bisexual and with a woman I would refuse to adopt for their sakes. |
Date: 12/17/2002 5:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 26452
Of course they should. I saw something on Montel Williams about gay/lesbian families. These children had very happy lives, a few did get teased, but EVERYONE gets teased. Being gay doesn't make you a better or worse parent, or more or less loving. I don't have any kids now, but if I did, and something happened to me, I would want my child to be with the best guardians possible, weather they bee gay or straight. I have a few friends who are Bi, they are very sweet and loving and I know that no matter which sex they choose to be with they would make GREAT parents.  |
Date: 12/17/2002 5:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 10722
Lmao, no way!  |
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Date: 12/17/2002 6:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 58923
Societal norm? The societal norm can be changed! People who were discriminated against before, are now accepted! Things that were never talked about, are now talked about openly! People need to learn to accept others. Yes, I agree the child may be teased, but will we ever have change without sacrafice? And whats wrong with breaking down of traditional ideas of gender roles? Should only girls play with dolls, and only boys with trucks? Excuse me if I don't see a problem with boys playing with dolls, and girls with trucks. Or perhaps I don't see your point? Gays and lesbians are PEOPLE. They don't have the acceptance they deserve. They are going to have to fight for it. Personally, I support them. If we tell them they can't adopt, thats like saying we don't think they are proper people. That they aren't able to raise children. They are just as fit to be parents as any other person, and I think most foster children can respect that, and just accept their love. |
Date: 12/17/2002 6:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 30477
Should straights be allowed to adopt gay chidren? Wouldn't it confuse them? Wouldn't all the other gay kids make fun of them? *gasp* What if it influenced them to grow up heterosexual? Here's a better debate: Should ten percent of the American population be relegated to the status of second-class citezenship due to their sexual orientation? Sorry to generalize, but people are being denied their rights and it is not acceptable.  |
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Date: 12/17/2002 6:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 58923
I couldn't agree more.... Jeff is it? lol |
Date: 12/17/2002 7:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Yes, gay and lesbian parents should be allowed to adopt. The fact is that in most all cases the children of gay or lesbian parents do better than their peers because of the ability to adapt to diversity. As has been shown in many cases of natural gay or lesbian parents who live with their partner, the children are often more involved in the family than they are in many heterosexual homes. One thing that has been noted in several studies, and something that many family counselors warn against, is the problem some gay and lesbian parents have of giving too much attention to their kids, and allowing them too much leeway in family decisions. In other words, too much love. As a norm, children of gay and lesbian parents are no more apt to become gay or lesbian than any other child. There are numerous factors that decide if a person will be gay or lesbian, from before childbirth until their first couple of years. A child that does not have such tendacies will not become gay or lesbian just because they are exposed to it in everyday life. That is a myth used by many religo-conservative groups to try and block gays and lesbians from raising children. There is a case in Florida that has been studied intensly involving two gay males who have been foster parents for HIV+ children for some time. These two males have on several occasions approached the state in an effort to adopt several of the kids they have cared for. The state has denied them, although the social workers who have worked the children's cases have stated that the kids have recieved far more love and care than could ever be expected. As for kids being taunted at school, recent studies have shown that today's kids are far more acceptable to the non-traditional family than in years past, and that many are far more acceptable to gays and lesbians. The problem is not the other kids, but the parents of those kids who still wish to believe all the old taboos and myths without bothering to educatre themselves to the facts.  |
| Date: 12/17/2002 8:18:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 I totally agree they shouldnt be able to adopt for the obvious Reasons you stated |
| Date: 12/17/2002 8:19:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Flame on someone is not born gay or Str8 It is a Choice they make |
| Date: 12/17/2002 8:24:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Warrior were do you get your Facts? |
Date: 12/17/2002 8:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 51070
I know two lesbians who adopted a little boy. I'm not homosexual, but I don't see a thing wrong with it. Who cares what the negative, ignorant people think? Just because some people will be ignorant buttheads and make fun of them doesn't mean gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt. If we straight people can have kids, then so can they.  |
| Date: 12/17/2002 8:35:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Thats the Thing Creepy Str8 ppl "Can Have Kids" Homosexuals Can't have kids Naturally so that is only one Reason why they shouldnt be alound 2 |
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Date: 12/17/2002 8:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
61969, I get my facts from years of study and research, and also from doing work with the LGBT community. Although I am not gay, I have taken the time to do the a lot of research into it myself, and have kept abreast of the latest medical and scientific studies. I have many friends in the gay, lesbian, and transgender community, and they will all tell you that if there were a choice, they would never choose to be the way they are. The information is out there, one only needs to know where to look, and how to weed out the myth and crap from the real information. |
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Date: 12/17/2002 9:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Also, who says homosexuals cannot have kids naturally? I know quite a few lesbian women who had kids naturally. Most all of them were married at one time, or had relations with a man, in an attempt to prove to themselves they were not lesbian. I also know several gay natural fathers, who were also marreid at one time. Put the myths and misinformation aside. |
Date: 12/17/2002 9:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
I would rather have one or two loving parents, IT WOULD NOT matter what if they were both women or both men, than have a parent who beat the crap out me or could cared more about their ownselves than being a parent. Being a good parent is the only label (if there must be one) that I would be concerned with. I agree with Warrior Spirit, many good points there.  |
| Date: 12/17/2002 9:12:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Warrior You know what I meant dont twist it. Can a woman and a woman make a kid or man and man. No ok there you go. Of course what I am telling you isnt gonna change your opinon cause you dont want it to. well anyways Just so you know it is a Choice. There have been many ppl that have said Tha Life Style was a Choice. If I wanted I could be Gay but I have made the Choice not to be along with The Majority of ppl. I have yet to See any so called proof ppl claim that proves they are born with it. And if you are born Gay wouldnt they be able to Alter teh person into being Str8? ok that is all This is just my opinon you have yours I have mine Good Day |
| Date: 12/17/2002 9:14:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Shadow first off when you adopt a Kid or Kids its not like shoping at wal-mart were anyone get just go in an pic what they want and leave tehy do a lot of Research on Parents and sure their are probably a Few Cases of ppl being Beatin by Str8 ppl but if their were that many Gays adopting as Str8 then there would be Just as many if Not more |
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Date: 12/17/2002 9:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Author 61969, I am 47 years old, I know adoption is not available at Walmart. As a Nurse, who has seen beaten, scalded, shaken, babies with broke bones, babies murdered by their own parents, I think I have learned ENOUGH in my 47 years and chosen vocation to know that it is more than a few cases. Have you ever seen one? If so, were the parents gay or lesbian? What, exactly causes one to beat or torture a child? Please expand further. What in your own personal experience, can you offer that would lead me to believe being gay or lesbian makes a bad parent? |
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Date: 12/17/2002 9:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Do I DARE offer my own personal view? The MAJORITY of child abuse, child torture cases I have seen and known, the perpetrator is heterosexual, usually the live-in boy friend of the mother. My eyes are wide open here. |
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Date: 12/17/2002 9:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
61969, if you choose to disregard the scientific and medical studies, then that is your choice. The fact is though, homosexuality is not a choice. The decision to act on the behavioral tendacy is though. That is where the common layman makes their mistake. They place the physical act with the mental tendacy. The two are very much different. I have written repeated long posts on the subject, and have even written a couple of articles for publication. Regardless of all that, the initial poat dealt with whether or not they should be able to adopt. I stand behind my convictions that they should. Most every non-biased study done also supports that position.We are no longer living in the dark ages. It is time that people woke up and looked at life the way it is really is. Gays and lesbians are a very real part of life, and they do raise kids. Most do it better than non-gays. If you wish to discriminate against them, that is your choice. Living in Florida though, that may be an unwise choice, since the LGBT community in that state is making major gains on anti-discrimination front. |
Date: 12/18/2002 1:30:00 AM
From Authorid: 34814
I know a Gay couple who raised kids and half the kids are gay and half straight. I know straight people with gay kids. I know gay people with straight kids LOL Who cares love and raising is love and raising. If the child has a good home I have no issue who raises one.  |
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Date: 12/18/2002 8:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 41067
So 61969, going on the same tack as you, homosexuals can't have kids, heterosexuals can, yes? So only those who can have kids should be able to adopt yes? What about a heterosexual couple who are unable to concieve? They can't have kids, should the same rule be applied to them? |
| Date: 12/18/2002 8:27:00 AM From Authorid: 61969 Trandis tryin to Twist stuff huh? well look Can man and man have kids weither Sterile or not? NO bottom line dont twist what I say. But lets say we use your Logic ok heres a New one for you If not Sterile would they be able to Reproduce Gays that is No ok so No adoption. |
Date: 12/18/2002 8:36:00 AM
From Authorid: 33817
Gays should be able to adopt. I do still believe, though, that a gay male couple should be last in line for adoption, simply because of the pure statistical propensity for men to abuse children.  |
| Date: 12/18/2002 10:22:00 AM From Authorid: 61923 This one I am not really sure on. I have seen several gay or lesbian couples that have done fine jobs raising children, but I have ot question the long term effects on the child. I do have Christian beliefs, but I am not one to push my beliefs on others. Do I approve? No, but am I accepting of it, Yes. |
| Date: 12/18/2002 12:07:00 PM From Authorid: 37354 Someday soon we may be able to eliminate gay people in the womb. Hugo |
| Date: 12/18/2002 12:12:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 hugo that Day cant come Soon enough |
Date: 12/18/2002 1:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 57640
I'd have to say that i think they should. I mean, we all go through hardships in life, and if people wanna make fun of them, thats their problem! It will just make the kids stronger. Good post. *LiLsportQueen89*  |
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Date: 12/18/2002 2:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
61969, it is obvious from your post that you are full of hatred, probably a hatred based on ignorance of truth and facts. Do you care to post where you found statistics stating that gays, on a percentage basis, are responsible for more crimes against straights? I doubt it, since such statistics do not exist. As for special laws, gays are not trying to get special laws, they are only trying to get the present laws on the books enforced equally for all people. They are only trying to get assurances that the laws set down by the Constitution are equeal for all people. I know, because I have written letters to numerous politicians in an effort to get some of those laws passed. You hate gays, good for you. I hate people who refuse to educate themselves to the real facts and decide instead to remain ignorant, and allow their ignorance and hate to poison them. But I do not discriminate against them. I only pity them and hope that someday they will gain enough wisdom to seek the truth and overcome their hatred. |
| Date: 12/18/2002 3:43:00 PM From Authorid: 37354 We do not need hate crime laws. They are totally unneccesary. Hugo |
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Date: 12/18/2002 4:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 30477
*rapidly loses faith in humanity* |
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Date: 12/18/2002 5:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 41067
Don't lose faith in all of humanity Jeffs, just a certain element of it. |
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Date: 12/18/2002 6:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 41067
And Warrior Spirit, good to hear your voice of reason again. I wonder how many will listen to it. |
Date: 12/18/2002 8:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 10146
NOPE!  |
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Date: 12/18/2002 8:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
I have lived reality for over 40 years. Reality is that there are many people like Falwell, who constantly twist facts and figures to further their own course. Falwell has time and again proven his ignorance by trying to twist the Constitution to fit his own little idea of how America should be. If Falwell and those who believe him had their way, the only people in America would be people who followed his idea of Christianity. The fact is, that other than domestic viloence, which is on the climb in the gay community, crimes comitted by gays are far less percentage wise than those comitted by straights. Those facts come from the FBI's crimes statistics website. You show your ignorance by not being able to debate facts. Your constant need to resort to curse words shows your ignorance of the English language. I will give you another fact on gay parents. As many as 9 million U.S. children have at least one gay parent. That comes from the American Academy of Pediatrics. That same group has done extensive studies and has released a paper stating that gays should be allowed to adopt. There official statement was "The American Academy of Pediatrics has endorsed homosexual adoption, saying gay couples can provide the loving, stable and emotionally healthy family life that children need." Those facts and statements come from people a lot more learned than you or I. If you wish to remain ignorant to the facts, then you are the only one to blame. Do not blame other's for your shortcomings, and your hatred does show that you do have shortcomings. |
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Date: 12/18/2002 8:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Haadam, the words that it actually stand for are not allowed on USM, and according to the rules of this site, neither is that abbreviation, or the use of asteriks to mask curse words. It seems there are some who do not care for the rules, nor do know how to carry on debates without resorting to the childish use of curse words. |
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Date: 12/18/2002 9:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Here is the rule as it is actually written. You will note that it is the first rule listed for USM. "1. No swearing at any time. This also means that you cannot use any symbols such as *** or #@$, or other symbols to take the place of any letter in a swear word. There are many other ways that are more polite to get your points across to the readers. No Exceptions. " |
Date: 12/18/2002 9:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 36803
But of course they should be able to adopt.  Your sexual preference has nothing to do with the quality of care and the amount of love you can provide for a child. And last time I checked, heterosexuals don't make better parents anymore than homosexual ones do. Just my .02  |
| Date: 12/18/2002 9:58:00 PM From Authorid: 37354 Gays should be last in line, but they should be allowed to adopt.Hugo |
| Date: 12/18/2002 10:12:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 For one I didnt use it as a Curse word Hey its not even a Curse word the word I used is also a word for a Stupid Person I cant even remember how I used it but I know no matter how its used its not a Curse word. |
| Date: 12/18/2002 10:23:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Warrior I just went to your FBI site adn that is Bull cause there are more cases then listed and that is from 1995 plus how many Str8 Men you know would Acually admit if a Gay did beat them up? well anyways you have you Ignorant Beliefs and I have mine |
| Date: 12/18/2002 10:35:00 PM From Authorid: 37354 That's right, WS. Richard Simmons once beat me up and I was too embarrassed to report it. Hugo |
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Date: 12/19/2002 6:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 33817
So what is a lesbain, anyway? |
Date: 12/19/2002 11:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
Well I'm not really against it. However, I have one suggestion... gay men should only have a girl and gay women a boy. Or maybe they could clone themselves. The safe sex way is to adopt a cat.  |
Date: 12/19/2002 2:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
well if we didnt live in such a hateful society there wouldnt be a problem and i bet its people who have the same opinion that they will get teased by the there kids  |
Date: 12/19/2002 6:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Gays and Lesbians are aloud to adopt. I don't think they should have the first choice. I feel that those Hetersexual couples that are unable to concieve should be given the first choice. Homosexual couples should not be put in this catergory.  |
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Date: 12/19/2002 6:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Oh, why should we have to twist the traditions of the family in the name of equality. |
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Date: 12/19/2002 6:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Warrior Spirit, you are the one with the Hatred. |
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Date: 12/19/2002 7:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
No drkptrs, I do not have hatred. The Great Spirit has seen fit to bless me with an open and caring heart. There are things in this world that I do hate, but I do not condemn them. That is the difference. A man a lot wiser than I once told me that hatred was a poison that would lead one down a dark path, that to overcome that poison and cleanse the soul one must be open to all people, regardless of how one feels about them. It took me many years, but I finally understood what he meant. I only wish he were still alive to see it. |
Date: 12/19/2002 7:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 42945
well many years ago I would have been dead set against this, but as I've grown older I've come to realize that not all children are born out of an act of love and are treated as such...so who is to say that hetrosexual adoptive parents make better parents than gay/lesbian people...dont you think that a child who is raised with lots of love is going to fair a lot better in life than a child raise without any love ...then who is going to say which one gives more love than the other..hetrosexual or gay/lesbian parent!!!!!I know think that it doesnt matter whether one is straight or gay/lesbian..I have seen gay/lesbian parents and they are so loving and caring and it shows in the children they are raising....cheers Zema  |
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Date: 12/19/2002 9:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
As of 1997-DEC: There are about 100,000 children in US foster care systems, but only 20,000 are adopted annually. There is obviously a lack of adopting homes for the children who are available. Most states allow unmarried individuals to adopt. 22 states allow single gays and lesbians to adopt Some states allow unmarried couples (gay, lesbian, mixed-sex) to double adopt. This has the child adopted by one spouse and later adopted by the other. |
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Date: 12/19/2002 9:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Big Tex, maybe you didn't read what I posted earlier. An adopted child would have no more of a possibility of being gay than one adopted by heterosexuals. It is not something that is taught, but something that happens from the time of conception up through the first couple of years of life. It is strange. There are people in this world who spend a lot of time trying to educate others to the truth and facts, yet so many refuse listen to the lessons being taught. It is a sad fact that ignorance still rules in this country. |
| Date: 12/19/2002 9:52:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Warrior it isnt something your Born with you learn it by ppl like you that acually encourage it. that is how they become Gay it is all a Choice. |
| Date: 12/19/2002 9:56:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 They need to Keep the Kids in a home thats close as tehy can come to Traditional as possible and your stats dont show the lack of ppl wanting to adopt trust me it is not a lack they have long waiting list. |
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Date: 12/19/2002 10:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 33817
See, I told you all it was a choice. Not a defect, not a trait, A CHOICE AND A BEHAVIOR. You really believe that, don't you Chris? |
| Date: 12/19/2002 10:07:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 I know it is. |
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Date: 12/19/2002 10:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Homosexuality is not a choice. It is a psycholigical disposition, that begins to form shortly after conception, and continues until a child is about 2 years old. It cannot be taught or forced. Acting out on the tendacy is the choice. I will not argue the point with ignorant people who refuse to educate themselves. If you wish to debate it further, then I suggest you find a copy of Brain Sex and read it. Also,I do not encourage homosexual behavior. To be honest, I do not encourage any type of sexual behavior, other than abstinence, unless one is married. I will not stand idly by though and watch people try to dictate to others how they should live, and what is right for them. I spent 20 years defending the Constitution of this country, and will not see it, and all it stands for, destroyed by part of a generation that knows only hate. |
Date: 12/20/2002 1:31:00 AM
From Authorid: 21155
Well, I have had friends who were raised by both straight and gay parents, to be quite honest with you the only difference I saw was that the ones who were raised by the gay couples seemed to have more open, honest relationships with their parents. The lines of communication were always open and no topic seemed too taboo to broach. It may seem unconventional to some people but only because most of us weren't raised in an environment such as this. You can't make someone turn homosexual to my knowledge. The desires are within ourselves whether we will be hetero or not. Some may say its a lifestyle choice but I have to say that most of my friends who aren't heterosexual did not choose to be the way are or feel they way they do and many of them struggled even within themselves as they had a desire to be more 'like everybody else' and in some cases lived miserably trying to live lies when it came to their true feelings. Being homosexual does not diminish your capacity or capability to raise a child and show them every bit as much love and support as a heterosexual couple can. In my opinion, if anything were to happen that would cause my children to be orphaned, God forbid, and they were to be placed with a gay couple as long as my children were happy, loved, respected, encouraged and taught the rights from the wrongs and were not being abused in any way, then I see and have no problems with a situation such as that. They know who they are in their hearts, and no one's going to brainwash them into thinking or feeling other than what they know inside of themselves to be true and right for them. You can't program someone's mind and heart like that. The friends I have that were raised by gay couples weren't told that it's wrong to feel heterosexual love and were not taught that they should also be homosexual just because their parents feel that way, they were taught that they should be true to themselves, no matter what that may entail, and as a matter of fact many of those same friends are heterosexual, even though they were raised by gay couples, so my opinion on this matter is that Yes, they should be given the same opportunity to raise children as everyone else provided they are going to give the child every chance at being a success in life that they can. Much love, many hugs and kisses, and the very best of luck, hopes, and wishes to you and to ALL! -KQ a.k.a.  |
Date: 12/20/2002 2:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 61763
"Someday soon we may be able to eliminate gay people in the womb. Hugo" - Take some cyanide, thats bound to eliminate you.  |
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Date: 12/20/2002 8:43:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
Just what I would expect from Hugo... LOL. Seriously though ... I was thinking about this HONK HONK! Well if a child is abused it is said that there is a very high chance that they will become abusers too. So, if that's the case, then it is nurture and not nature that determines their behaviours. We have empirical evidence that we are very much influenced by our parents. I never thought I'd end up like my dad, but here I am talking like him and wearing the same hats. I am just putting forward another viewpoint. I have no strong feelings either way. You also have to remember that such a child would be the butt of many jokes (scuse the pun) from his peers. I think girls have a better chance of surviving such a union. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 9:13:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
Warrior Spirit, can you prove that Homosexuality is NOT a choice, where do you get that idea. Explain how people change. I like to see your explaination, I know many ex-gays, and yes there is a change. meeting these people before and after the change, you MUST conclude that it is real. explain that. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 9:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
We both obviously have a different definition of hatred. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 10:00:00 AM
From Authorid: 22080
drkptrs even if it is a choice big whoop just because a book that contradicts itself multiple times says its a no-no doesnt mean its right to hate |
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Date: 12/20/2002 10:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
Jester, no-where in the Bible does it contradict itself. I am not going to debate that right now. There is a BIG-Difference between Hating sin and hating sinners. Or in this case, hating homosexuality and hating homosexuals. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the two. |
| Date: 12/20/2002 12:50:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Well before I read anymore let me just say to warrior whats your point almost my entire Family is Military and I am goin Army soon they want me bad I just gotta do something first. Second so basicaly your Saying Being Gay is a Diesase or Mental Disorder. I guess using your Logic Gays are the Same as Pedophiles? SInce Pedophiles cant help they are Attracted to little Kids.well now I am gonna read the other comments |
| Date: 12/20/2002 12:57:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Well soon as States like Louisana Start Enforcing their Sodomy Laws then the Better off we will be. O and another Reason Gays shouldnt adopt is they have way more partners in their life Time then str8s I know this one Gay dude he has another bf every other week and were is the first place they go you Guessed it the motel. |
| Date: 12/20/2002 1:00:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 o and like DK explained if it is not a Choice then why do ppl Change? Eplain that? O and Jester were does the Bible contradict itself? O and you say who cares about the bible? well the bible clearly states God does not approve of Gays but yet Gays wanna Claim they are Christian. How can you be something when your Not wanted? Sodomites are not welcome in teh house of God. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 3:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 36803
^^^^ ha.. I think my IQ just lowered. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 3:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Homosexuality, as a trait, is not a choice. Medical science has proven that there are predetermined factors that will decide if a person is prone to homosexuality or not. The decision to act on those predetermined factors is a choice. People can have homosexuality tendacies, and never be gay. Others can put off the tendacy for years without acting on it. Others can overcome the tendacy, and learn to live a straight life. It is all up to the person. As for gays having more partners than straights, I know of several who have been in long term relationships with the same person for many years. I know another that admits to being gay, but has abstained from sexual relations because of his job and position with the state government. As for the Bible contradicting itself, it does it many times, strarting early in the book of Genesis. Getting back to the original post, 22 states do allow gays to adopt at this time. Other states are in the process of changing their laws so that gays can adopt. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the leading source for care guidelines for children has made a statement and thrown their full support behind gays and lesbians being able to adopt. 61919, the Army wants a lot of people bad. They need them to meet their monthly goals, as do all the services. If you wish to go that route, power to you. I would recommend though that you do an attitude check before signing. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 4:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
61969 is right on in almost every view he has. He does not need an attitude check. Liberals are the ones that need to attitude check. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 4:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 10146
Based on warrior spirits exsplanation, One could assume that we are all conceived Hormaphridites (SP)mentaly, but Physicaly only develope one gender. If your mind chooses to go with the gender that does not match your body, then your Homosexual. If your mind chooses to go both ways as the hormaphridite mind desires, then you are Bi Sexual. But tell me, what does the person do, who has a body gender that reflects both genders? What does it choose? If a body can be deformed at birth, then I suppose the mind can too correct? However, It is my beleif that if you choose to be what God made blessed you to be, then you can be that person, because God can make you an overcomer, if your will is to be within His will. God also instructs us that it is better for us, not to marry at all. However if we are the kind that burns in lust then let us take a mate of the opposite gender. As for the Deformed hermaphridite, I believe God will give him/her power to remain celibate. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 4:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 10146
The first man Ha Adam, Of Genesis Chapter Two, the one which was formed from the dust, was formed "BOTH" male and female "Within" himself. Some do not know this! He had the means of reproducing within his own body. His help mate did not appear untill God removed a Bone (Curvy rib) and his flesh (Womb) so that Eve was called Wombman (woman) because she was litteraly flesh of his flesh, and bone of his bone. It is for this reason, that even today both genders share one thing in common. They "BOTH" share, and have male and female Harmones, even today! |
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Date: 12/20/2002 4:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Haadam, you are confusing gender with sex. The two are different. One's gender is mental, and in nearly all cases, matches one's physical self. There are varying degrees of gender though. There are those males who are extreme masculine, and females who are extreme feminine. They are the ends of the gender scale. In between, falls the majority of society. A person who's mental gender does not match their physicl self is called a transsexual. You might ask MsPriss to explain that deeper, since she was such a person. She was born male, but transitioned to female. A person who has homosexual tendacies may be extreme masculine, or extreme feminine in the case of women. They have a certain predisposition that allows them to not find people of the same sex offending, and allows them to act on that predisposition. Some people keeping asking for proof of the "gay gene", but it is not a singlr gene. It is a compliation of various influences that begin at conception. If you ask any person who is gay or lesbian, and satisfied with themselves, if it is a choice or not, they will tell you that it is not a choice, but the way they were born. Drkptrs, you assume too much when you think I am a liberal. I am far from liberal. I am actually a Centrist with Libertarian leanings. If you don't know what that is, look it up. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 4:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 10146
Various influences that begin at conception? Explain that please. What produces the influences that early? If it is not a gene, then what is doing the influencing? |
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Date: 12/20/2002 5:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Like I said, there is a HUGE Difference between hating homosexuality and hating homosexuals, there is a huge difference. Preaching against homosexuality is not hatred towards homosexuals. I agree that it is hatred toward homosexuality, but not hatred toward homosexuals. There is nothing wrong with preaching agianst homosexuality. I do not have anykind of hatred. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 5:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Warrior Spirit, I never called you a liberal. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 7:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
61969 You said that Sodomites are not welcome in the house of God. Tell that to the pedofile priests. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 8:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 61969
Koolade yah and you see that they are getting kicked out of the church when this comes to light. and I find it funny how Warrior seems he is so much Smarter and Superior to Everyone. O and you keep saying theres proof I have yet to See this So called Proof. And basically what you are saying is its a Diesase adn they are on the Same Level as Pedophiles. If it was something in the Brain then this could be Munipulated to make them Str8 but its not we all have a Choice and they Choose to Be Gay. What is the exact Verses in the Bible were it Contridits I wanna see this and also post old or new test.. O look at this Psalm 5:5 - The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. (i.e Gays) |
| Date: 12/20/2002 8:37:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 O and this is for Koolade - Deuteronomy 23:17-18 - There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 9:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
I have justed finished loading my truck for a sale on the Georgia border this weekend. I will be back Sunday, and I will gladly give the links that I have to all the medical and scientific information, as well as the contradictory verses in the Bible. By the way, Deuteronomy is Mosaic Law, and applied to the children of Israel who had been held in captivity. The New Testament states clearly that whoseoever beleives in Christ will be saved. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 11:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 30477
As a homosexual, I'd like to simply interject that I never made the choice to be attracted to other males. From my experience, and the experiences of everyone else I know, it is definitely NOT a choice. That's really all I want to add to this, being that I am not yet "out" and that the debators against adoption rights for gays are not willing to accept any conflicting facts or opinions anyway. |
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Date: 12/20/2002 11:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 36803
If being homosexual is a choice, then I'm Alice in Wonderland. How can anyone honestly say that they actually believe someone would just CHOOSE to be a homosexual, knowing all that it entails. It's like saying they just woke up one morning and were like, "Hey I think I'm going to be gay!" Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? I mean, these days society is more open about homosexuality, compared to 20-25 years ago, but there are still people who openly discriminate and hold prejudice against them based on their sexual preference. Why would a person throw themselves into that kind of environment, knowing full well that not everybody is going to agree with what they're doing and that they may even decide they are bad and disgusting people because of it. Seriously, nobody would voluntarily open themselves upto ridicule and hatred for the rest of their lives. |
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Date: 12/21/2002 1:24:00 AM
From Authorid: 22080
avalonelle is right |
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Date: 12/21/2002 5:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
If Homosexuality is not a choice, then explain how do so many people change their sexual preference(I am one). I am an ex-gay. If you know the person before they change and after, then you must conclude that their was a change, impossible to deny that. Show that to your medical doctors. Avalonelle, Jeff, and Warrior SPirit, have failed to explain how people do change. They really did change, they were gay, and now they are straight, and they are NOT bi-sexuals, nor are they in any-kind of denial. I am one of these that changed. |
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Date: 12/21/2002 8:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 10146
You know Homosexualality has been around long, long, LONG, time, before sociaty was willing to let them come out (so to speak) of the closet. So I now wonder this! Way way back, when everybody was still in the closet, they did not Act, and go to the extreams they do today, that promotes all the Prissing, all the hand gesture movement, the way they talk, and Walk, etc.etc. This is just sickning to watch in my veiw. My goodness people even the most feminist women do not carry on, the way Some Gays do, (not all) but some do! If they cannot help themselves from doing so today, then tell me how they kept themselves from walking, talking, acting that way Years ago? Back then, One Priss movement, would have done them in. You know it, and they know it! Being gay may be one thing, but turning it into something that is compleatly sickning to watch as one walks down the street in public veiw is another thing. Now those kind of actions just makes me wont to puke! Come on people, Is that really nessasary? It, I sometimes feel, is what promotes and causes the extream critisims, that the Straight people project. The straight people just might be able to reason with this unatural problem in a more reasoning way, if this was not being done. Thats just my oppinion. |
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Date: 12/21/2002 10:52:00 AM
From Authorid: 22080
haadam did you know during the age of chivalry knights could have there way with the squires and still be considered noble also drkptrs you havent proved people can change to me wow your a "case" but ya know i dont buy it |
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Date: 12/21/2002 11:15:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
Jester, the only reason why you don't buy it, because you have been brain washed to believe what these liberals have taught you since pre-school. No one has proven that Gays cannot change. It is impossible to prove that. |
| Date: 12/21/2002 12:33:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Avalon thats like saying why do ppl still join and support KKK they are hated as well yet they still do it. Why do ppl still openly throw racial slurs at one another so that example you gave holds no weight |
| Date: 12/21/2002 12:39:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Drk has been on point each comment he makes. Drk is a Living Case how can you say hes lying? Just cause it dont go with your way of thinking? Jester The Reason its so many Gays now anyways is ppl like you that encourage and support it. and say nothings wrong with it long as it make you feel good. |
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Date: 12/21/2002 2:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
drkptrs youve been brainwashed by the church whats the difference |
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Date: 12/21/2002 2:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
how does encouraging it help? there has always been gays meaning theres just as many its just more open now so dont try that crap with me |
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Date: 12/21/2002 3:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Jester, I been brainwashed with the truth. |
| Date: 12/21/2002 3:27:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 How does encouraging help it? They same way it helps anything else. And its more like dont try your Crap with me yeah it has always been gays just not as many as now cause ppl like you are encouraging it. |
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Date: 12/21/2002 6:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
61969 i dont know where your from but just because someone doesnt openly admit to something doesnt mean it doesnt exist you can be married and still be gay its called cover up and drkptrs how do you know its the truth? |
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Date: 12/21/2002 6:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
God said that it is the truth. (Yes God talks to me and I talk to God.) |
| Date: 12/21/2002 8:09:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Jester I am from Tampa Florida USA |
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Date: 12/21/2002 11:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
drkptrs not everyone believes in your "god" so its not gonna be the truth to everyone and 61969 that explains it florida has one of the worse education systems going not to mention its in the south |
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Date: 12/22/2002 1:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 36803
Ehh hem, to the people disagreeing with me; That is your opinion and although I completely disagree with it, you are allowed your peace. Basically, I'm going to leave it at that because we will never see eye to eye on this subject and at some point it just becomes ridiculous to continue on with the subject. You have your feelings and I have mine. |
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Date: 12/22/2002 6:45:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
I would like to say something here... Everyone has the potential to be gay!!! Men and women. In private boarding schools it is common for both sexes to experiment. This is not regarded as unhealthy. It's just that some people have a stronger preference for one or the other. I am always suspicious of guys who vehemently oppose homosexuality... to me they are just reflecting their own desires. |
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Date: 12/22/2002 8:22:00 AM
From Authorid: 10146
Jestr, I would like to call you on that. Where is your proof, or where can it be found documented for me to read, that your statement of Knights having their way with Squires, was a noble act? |
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Date: 12/22/2002 9:01:00 AM
From Authorid: 10146
Jestr, My reasons are not to say your statement "is" or "is not" correct. However, I do have my doubts. "If" what you are saying is actual fact, then I would be interested in reading more about it, as I find it a bit hard to believe. |
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Date: 12/22/2002 12:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
i saw it on the history channel it was also the same with samuri's in japan and then theres greece who had a pretty good army for awhile they encouraged homosexuality in the army pretty funny how that works out |
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Date: 12/22/2002 12:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
but haadam if you would like me to do the research i will i just gotta figure out what to type in to find this stuff |
| Date: 12/22/2002 2:55:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Acually Jestr It dont explain anything cause I only been in Florida for 3 years i moved from KY and have lived in most the East coast and Germany and the South has Higher Test Scores than Norther States So your Sterotype is way off o an King High School in Tampa Florida right up the Road has been in the Top 100 High Schools in the Nation Multiple Times so whats your Point |
| Date: 12/22/2002 2:56:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 O an Jestr LOL your From alaska LOL so I wouldnt even Talk LOL. |
| Date: 12/22/2002 2:58:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Jestr Now I know your Lieing for 1 I watch History Channel at least 4 hours a day sometimes as much as 12 and have never seen that I am part Japanese and I know what your Sayin about Samuris encouraging Homosexuality is a Lie |
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Date: 12/22/2002 2:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
Type in 'Roman Empire and homosexuality' or 'homosexuality in medieval England' or 'homosexuality in the cavalry' or homosexuality and the Native American'. You'll be interested to know that Sitting Bull's tribe had homosexuals. They were called winktes (maybe thats where we get winkie from). Anyway the choice was ... to be a winkte or a warrior. Tatanka Iyotanka chose warrior .. thank goodness. |
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Date: 12/22/2002 5:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Jester, if you meet someone who is truely Gay, and then a few months later, that person changes sexual preference, it is impossible to deny that a change took place, I know what I am talking about. I have seen it too many times. |
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Date: 12/22/2002 7:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
61969 it was on the history of sex(wonderful late night boredom lol) and also drkptrs ill believe it when i see it oh 1 more thing 61969 i know my school system sucks but i havent lived here my whole life i come from a military family |
| Date: 12/22/2002 7:47:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Jestr I come from a Military Family 2 |
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Date: 12/22/2002 9:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
officers kid i presume |
| Date: 12/22/2002 10:33:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Nope My Dad was No Officer he Retired from the Army E-7 I think after Gulf war both my parents got something from Gulf War my Dad had Heart Transplant he was Military Intellegence my mom Had a Heart Valve Transplant |
| Date: 12/22/2002 10:34:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 That I think is I think E-7 not I think after Gulf War I know it was after Gulf war He may have been E-8 Not Sure though |
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Date: 12/23/2002 10:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 22080
oh ok |
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Date: 12/23/2002 10:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 22080
oh ok |
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Date: 12/23/2002 6:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Here are some hard facts concerning homosexuality. I do have links to many of these facts, since most come from research papers and medical journals, and from seminars. The fact is that for years homosexuality was considered a mental disorder under DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Fourth Edition). Some years back, under pressure from the gay and lesbian community, and from some in the psychiatric community, it was taken out as a mental disorder. One of the reasons was that if a person was found to be homosexual, they could be placed in an asylum, and therapy taken to attempt to cure their homosexuality. Some of these measures were mind altering drugs and elctro-shock therapy. The fact was that many people who were gay were not bothered by that fact, and did not see any need to go through the rigors of therapy set by society. Homosexuality has been around since the earliest days of man. It is spoken of in many cultures, including the Judeo-Christian culture. Even in the first 600 years of the Christian religion, it was still and accepted part of many rituals. About 600AD, the Holy Roman Church laid down a decree outlawing homosexual practices among those inthe church. Needless to say, that decree did little to stop a practice that was normal for many. Getting back to the studies on homosexuality, since it's removal from DSM-IV, there has been an outcry, mainly from those who are agianst gays and homosexuality, to produce this one gene that causes homosexuality. What many do not understand though, is isolating one gene in the multitudes of genes found in our genetic makeup can be like finding a needle in a haystack. Also, medical science still does not fully understand what every specific gene does, or how it effects other genes. If it were fully undertsood, then there would be no birth defects, or crippling diseases, since doctors would be able to do take gene samples and see problems long befoer they develop. Several studies have been done on identical twins. One study was done in Canada, and others were done at Northwestern University, and in Boston, along with several other independent studies. In each study, identical twins were located where it ws known that at least one of the twins was homosexual. The study included not only twins that had grown up in the same enviroment, but also twins who had been seperated at birth, and grown up in totally different eniroments. In this study, where one twin was found to be homosexual, in approxiamately 40% of the cases, the other twin had been found to either be homosexual, or had homosexual relations at some time. Where it was found that both twins were homosexual, further studies were done to find genetic anomolies. Some anomolies were found, as were some physical characteristics that had only been recognized before in homosexuals. The question was asked by doubters of the research why both twins were not homosexual, or why the numbers were not higher. The answer is that it is possible that in some cases the other twin may not have been totally truthful, or that their homosexualty may not have yielded itself at that point in their life. Another probablity was that their were other factors besides just a genetic tie that could cause one to be homosexual, and the other not to be. It was this second probability that led to studies into enviroment. This is also where research into the transsexualism comes into play. Research into transsexualism has shown that from the moment of conception, there are constant changes that go on in the developing fetus. Many think that we get all our chromosones at the moment of conception, but actually the developing child goes through a series of chromosonal baths, weher certain chromosones in the bath will take, while some don't. Much of this can be effected by the mother, and her condition during pregnancy. Something as small as undue stress can effect how the child will develop. Also, the mother's lifestyle, and habits can effect it. There are even certain medications that were prescribed in years past that can effect the child. Any of these things put together could easily cause a child to eventually suffer from Gender Identity Dysphoria. (For a synopsis of GID, serach DSM-IV for further information) GID effects less than 1% of the popualtion. From the research done on GID, many began to realize that the same thing could very well be happening to those who are homosexual. As a matter of fact, some who suffer from GID may actually involve themselves in homosexuality, since sexual relations with the opposite gender seems foreign to them. Also, GID and transsexualism are not as widely known as homosexuality. Some may suffer from GID for years, without actually knowing what it is that effect them. Getting back to the developing child, it's development does not end at birth. The newborn child contiunes to develop both mentally and physically for several years. During that time, any number of factors can effect how the child will be later in life. It is believed that this is one reason, in the case of identical twins, that when one is homosxual both are not. The question was asked how one can overcome being homosexual? The propensity for homosexual activity may not be as strong as in some people. Also, the burden our society puts on homosexuals often forces some to change, whether they wish to or not. It is the same reason some may lead a normal life for most of their life, and then suddenly turn to the homosexual lifestyle. The question could be asked "how does one person overcome a delibitating birth defect, while others cannot?". If doctors knew the total answer to that question, then how many people would have to go through their whole life with a birth defect? There are many things science still does not know about us. We are a complex creature, with variances decided by many outside factors. Until medical science knows all there is to know, then no one can say that a person is wrong for being homosexual. One can say that "The Bible tells us it is wrong", but understand, Christianity has only been around for 2000 years, and is believed by less than half the inhabitants of the world. One book does not make homosexuality wrong, until that book is believed by all people's of the world. No one has to accept homosexuals, or homosexuality, but understand this, the Constitution of the United States applies to all citizens, regardless, of whether or not they are homosexual. It guarantees us all certain rights and freedoms. Unless you are willing to give up your own rights and freedoms, then do not be so hesitant to step on the rights and freedoms of others. |
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Date: 12/23/2002 7:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
*agrees with warrior spirit* |
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Date: 12/23/2002 8:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
I think Warrior Spirit just gave the definitive answer and I for one will respect his opinion. Mitakuye Oiyasin |
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Date: 12/24/2002 6:40:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
Explain why people change their sexual preference. If you meet someone who is Gay, and then later on see that person changes sexual prefrence. You have to conclude that a change DID take place, it is impossible to deny that a change took place, I have seen it, I know what I am talking about. So Warrior Spirit, those people that did these so called surveys, if they were to witness it, then they would have to say that they were wrong, I know what I have seen, I know what I am talking about. People change their sexual preference everyday, I have seen it, I know what I witness. |
| Date: 12/24/2002 10:30:00 AM From Authorid: 61969 I didnt read it all cause its 2 long but ok so if it is In the BRAIN as you claim then it is indeed a Mental Disorder an should be Treated like one. But it is a Choice. You still havent proven your Facts about this cause if 1 can change then it is proven that it is a Choice |
| Date: 12/24/2002 10:38:00 AM ( Admin-JGB ) of course they should be able to adopt!! They are PEOPLE First, sexual orientation second or third or fourth etc... Just because of ones sexual orientation, doesn't negate the love they could express to a child, and probably to a child that would otherwise NOT have that love. |
| Date: 12/24/2002 11:20:00 AM From Authorid: 61975 Why not??Gays and lesbians are people too. |
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Date: 12/24/2002 12:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
allergies are a genetic defect but you can get rid of them does that make it a choice? |
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Date: 12/24/2002 8:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Drkptrs, if you will bother to read what I wrote, then you will see that I answered your question. You just proved to me and to everyone else here that you did not read it, but only replied with your usual banter. 61969, take the time to read it and maybe you will learn something. Of course if it is above your reading and comprehension level, maybe someone can read it to you in words you can understand. The fact is, because something is genetic or enviromental in nature, does not mean it is actually a disorder. The majority of people are right handed. A much smaller number are left handed. Even fewer, like myself, are ambidextrious. Are the left handed and ambdextrious suffering from a disorder? No. Ten years ago, I received a major concussion from an industrial. One of the long term effects of that consussion is occsional short term memory loss. It is not a disorder, but an effect of something envioromental (the accident). Now, if you must know where my information comes from, I work with one of the oldest transgender suport groups in the United States. I handle all the communications and much of the gathering of new research material for that group. I also have at my availability the entire library of research material that was gathered before I joined the group. I also know some of the information firsthand, because I too suffer from Gender Identity Disorder. I was diagnosed two years ago, and have since that time done what was necessary to take care of my problem. Maybe it is time some other people started taking care of their problems, instead of trying to blame those of us in the LGBT community for their personal problems. |
Date: 12/24/2002 10:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 53314
Gays and Lesbians shouldn't be able to adopt Because it could severely damage the child's growth and development. If a child grows up with 2 parents of the same sex It may traumatize them and May even lead them to believe that one sex is better then the other.Wouldnt you be embarrassed if at conference night you had to come to school with 2 dads? I mean If someone asked where's your Mom would you say you have 2 dads? Would you really be comfortable saying that personally don't think I would.  |
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Date: 12/25/2002 4:17:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Rowley, I take it you have not read all the responses. Here is part of a post that was made on December 18th; "As many as 9 million U.S. children have at least one gay parent. That comes from the American Academy of Pediatrics. That same group has done extensive studies and has released a paper stating that gays should be allowed to adopt. There official statement was "The American Academy of Pediatrics has endorsed homosexual adoption, saying gay couples can provide the loving, stable and emotionally healthy family life that children need.". |
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Date: 12/25/2002 4:34:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Using some of the same arguments aothers have used here, maybe military people should not be allowed to marry and have kids. I can think of numerous reasons, especially having served my time in the military. #1, Being military is supposed to be a full time, 24/7, job. Having a wife and kids would take away from being to dedicate one's self totally to the family. #2, Moving around as much as military people do could be detrimental to children, since it does not allow them to make long term friends, and also because the education system from one place to the next is not standardized. #3, People in the military are trained to kill, and in wartime do kill. The Bible clearly states "Thou Shalt Not Kill". #4, Many military personnel, especially those in the lower ranks, live at or below the poverty level. #5, Not allowing military personnel to have wife and kids would greatly lower the defense budget, since a large amount of the budget is spent to care for and provide services for those family members... As you can see, some of the same arguments can be used for almost any situation. The fact is though that unless any of us are in a postition to influence the opinion of decision makers, our personal thoughts on homosexuals being able to adopt is mute. I am affilitaed with two PACs that do influence political decisions. Both groups have their own lobbyists, and are major campaign contributors. That does not mean that my personal thoughts are any more valid, but we do lobby based on the collective ideas of the PAC as a whole. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 4:46:00 AM
From Authorid: 53314
As many as 9 million U.S. children have at least one gay parent.ONE gay parents Have they dont studies on children with 2? |
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Date: 12/25/2002 5:24:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
Warrior Spirit, I just do what my God tells me to do. You are confusion with hating Homosexuality and hating homosexuals. I don't know how I can get the message across, that there is A HUGE Difference between the two. Oh by the way, I did read everything you wrote. I don't understand your last comment about military. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 5:53:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Yes Rowley, they have done studies on two parents. That was one reason they made the statement they did. It was in one of the major medical journals over a year ago. Of course most people do not read medical journals. Drkptrs, do you do what God tells you to do, or do you do what you feel in your heart the Bible tells you do? Many people often confuse the two. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 7:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
By the way Drkptrs, it is an arrogant person that would say that it is "my God". The Great Spirit is the god of all mankind, not just your god. I too do what the Great Spirit has told me to do. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 7:36:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
God Wrote the Bible, so I obey the Bible, thus, so I do what God tells me to do, oh by the way, are you sure we both have the same God. Something to think about. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 8:06:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Maybe you had better study the history of the Bible. God did not write the Bible. Man wrote it. If you believe in the one Great Spirit that made all that we know, then yes, we believe in the same God. The only difference is that like my ancestors, we do not need man's wriiten book to know what the Great Spirit is, and what he desires. Maybe you should also do some research into the spiritual beliefs of the American Indian. You will find that many tribes have stories and beliefs that closely parallel those of Christians, without benefit of a book. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 8:20:00 AM
From Authorid: 54987
Applauds loudly |
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Date: 12/25/2002 8:38:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
I did research in many religions, including Native American. It may seem to be the same, but really is not, it may seem to parralell, but that does not nessacry mean it is the same. In the name of Jesus Christ I reject the great spirit, let's just say that the Latin name for great spirit is also name for someone else. God does not lie, God wrote the Bible. The history of the Bible, was written by man, but not the Bible itself. I really do not care to read what man has written about the Bible, I believe the Bible that was written by God, over anykind of book that man has written. I believe that God has the power to make sure that his word would never changed, I beleive that God has done that. Let's get back to the original topic. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 9:01:00 AM ( Admin-JGB )
back to the original topic.... all powerful GOD made homosexuals like they are and they are deserving as human beings to be parents. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 9:13:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Drkptrs, if you believe God himsefl wrote the Bible, then you follow a false god. The Bible is the inspired word written by man, supposedly under God's guidance. If you believe the Great Spirit is other than the one true God, then you have not studied religion. Where did you do your studies? I do not believe you have done any studies into religion. I believe you are nothing more than a misguided individual following a false prophet. Such are spoken of many times not only in the Bible, but also in Indian legend. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 9:41:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
Maybe it is you who is following a false Prophet. I have studied religion, to see what everyone believes. Back to original topic, Jungabel, God would not make anyone Gay, Lesbian, Bi-sexual, Trans-gender, or Gender-Identity-disorder, I do not see how a loving God would make someone to be such. I think it is pretty cruel for anykind of supreme being to do such a thing. My God would never make anyone like that. I would never follow a God who would make someone to be such. |
| Date: 12/25/2002 9:49:00 AM ( Admin-JGB ) Didn't god make all the people? regardless of their "plight"? (social standards of the time) |
Date: 12/25/2002 9:56:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
Warrior Spirit, I read all of these replies. I applaud you for TRYING to educate (an a excellent effort it is) SOME very bigoted, very ignorant, and bull-headed people regarding the matter. Author 61969, Drkptrs, and Haadam, You are stuck back there in the Dark Ages, and apparently that is where you wish to remain. You are of the very same kind of thinking and mindset, that believes that atheists shouldn't be able to adopt as well; for in YOUR mind, you see anything or ANYONE who doesn't believe as YOU or your "inspired" word of the Buy-bull, as bad, evil, and "sinful". Guess what? It is NO different that the fanatical Muslim's who wish to wipe out ALL those infidels who don't believe THEIR way, and flew planes into skyscrapers while clinging to their idiotic beliefs that THEY were going straight to heaven. NO different! In your mind: you don't think ANYONE is capable of LOVE, NURTURING, MORALITY, EDUCATION, etc, unless they are Christian. GET A CLUE! You're dead W R O N G! You point your long pious, bigoted fingers at the FEW who are promiscuous or lead a immoral life within the gay community.....well, those are found in EVERY single lifestyle, and every religion, every belief system. You scream to high heaven when anyone points out child abuse and molestation in the church and by so called Christians, but fail to recognize that it is in ALL areas of life, and all walks, all lifestyles. A persons personal preferences as far as a life partner HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR PARENTING SKILLS & OR ABILITIES.  |
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Date: 12/25/2002 9:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
Being gay is NOT a CHOICE! |
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Date: 12/25/2002 10:10:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
Heaven, I highly encourage you, and anyone else; I implore you to go read, learn, how the religious, the pious, the bigoted, operate, and how they THINK regarding these matters. PLEASE, read. WHAT have you got to lose? You just might gain some REAL insight, and have a much better understanding. Thank you. http://www.ffrf.org/articles/pedo1992.html |
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Date: 12/25/2002 10:17:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
Thinker, you have good points as well. I never said that they did, if that were the case, then no one would be a parent. The reason why I replied with what I replied, these people asked questions, or just made statements, then I answered them. I respect you(now I may not agree 100 percent, but I do respect you). Your point about the Priests and Molestations, this could be a shock to you, I am NOT a follower of the Roman Catholic Church, I refuse be apart of it, or have anything to do with the Pope, Cardinal Law, many of these priests Bishops, Virgin Mary, Rosaries, etc. I refuse to be apart of it, or have anything to do with it. The only reason why I mention about it, you made statement first. Let's get back to original topic. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 10:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
Thinker, good article. I have it booked marked. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 10:30:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Drkptrs, if you are so knowledgable of religion, then maybe you can tell me what this verse means; Rom 3:19-20 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, . Also, what is the purpose of biblical law? |
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Date: 12/25/2002 11:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
I never said I was knowledgable of religion, as far as I am concerned, religion will do you no good. I have relationship with Jesus Christ. There is a difference between the two. I have allowed myself to be guided by the Holy Spirit. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 11:36:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
The Old Testement law was Fullfilled when Christ went to the Cross. Jesus did not abolished the law, he fullfilled it, completed it. The Law did two things, 1) showed he sinful man was, 2) Pointed to Christ. Jesus died on the Cross, following the law was no-longer nessary. But the Ten-Commandments as well as the New Testement Doctrine became what the Christian faith is. Our doctrine does not come from Christ(He lived in the Old Testement), it was the Apostle Paul that gave us the Doctrine. In order to worship God now, we need to do it his way, not our way, that is what is meant by no flesh would be justified in his sight. To worship God, you need to get into Spirit(Basically that means, don't concentrate on what you want, but what God wants.) |
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Date: 12/25/2002 11:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Keep digging your own hole Drkptrs. Do you need a bigger shovel? Christ DID NOT live in the Old Testament. If you will start at Matthew, which is the first book of the NewTestament, it tells you clearly of the birth of Christ. What that verse is stating, and it is also the purpose of the law, is that no man can live the perfect life, and that we are all to humble down before God, because we are not perfect. There are two ways to salvation. One is living the life that Christ led, the other is by admitting that we are all less than perfect in the eyes of the Lord. Unfortunately, there are many out there who call themselves Christian that believe solely in the first way of salvation, and will never see the greater glory. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 11:59:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
At the Time of Christ, that was old testement times, The New Testement did not start until the Holy Spirit came down on the Apostles which started the Church age. We are in the New Testement today. THe Old Testement is also known as the Age of the Law, the New Testement is the Age of Grace. The only way to Heaven is trusting in Christ as savior. I don't know how you got two ways of Salvation. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 12:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Back to original topic, I never said that Gays should not be allowed to adopt. I am saying that Gays should not have the first choice. I believe that any couple(weather it is male, or female) who cannot have kids(for medical reasons), but able to be parents these people should have the first choice of Adoptions, Gay Couples should not fit in this category. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 1:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
Homosexual or Heterosexuality should never be number ONE on the criteria for adoption list. A person or person's background should be thoroughly investigated, as to their character, their stand on education; their honesty and demonstrated thinking/mindset (written and oral & references) as to WHY they want to have a child, and what they can do FOR that child, in order to help that child become and grow into a good, solid, educated, productive and loving adult. Avalonelle made a very good point: WHY would anyone CHOOSE to become gay, when there is so much stigma attached; so much bigotry and animosity towards the gays? One can be much, much worse than being gay; I am here to tell you. To be a religious BIGOT and rigid fundamentalist who lies and hides behind the Bible....THAT is far ,FAR worse, IMHO. I will take a good, honest, loving and EDUCATED gay couple..ANY DAY, over a rigid, bigoted, and dishonest heterosexual couple. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 1:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
I am not a bigot towards anybody |
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Date: 12/25/2002 1:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Ok, explain how come so many people change their sexual preference. I have seen it in many people. If you meet an openly Gay person(or even a closet gay), and then some time later, that person would change, you cannot deny the change in that person. Weather or not you believe in God is irrelevant to the fact that a change took place. Even if you do not believe in God, you still cannot deny the fact that there was a change. I have seen it so many times, you cannot deny the fact that a change that took place. I know what I am talking about, I know what I witnessed. |
Date: 12/25/2002 1:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 14412
It never surprises me how many closed minded people there out in the world. Just because parents might be gay/lesbian, does NOT mean the child will become the way thier parents are. In acuatallity, i think gay/lesbian parents would be some of the best. They can teach children that it is ok be different, and be who YOU are. They can learn that not everything society says about differences is what they need to go by."i dont think they should be allowed to. because of wich i stated. their actions could turn the child gay/lesbian and the child would get teased. ya'll klnow they would. "<------the most idiotic statement I heard. So what if the parents are different, If they are proud of thier parents, and if they respect themselves, then they will be fine. Maybe, YOU have made of fun of such children before...hmmmmmmmmmm |
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Date: 12/25/2002 2:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Drkptrs, exactly how many cases aave you personally witnessed where a person who was homosexual went straight? Myself, I have personally seen one such case. I have seen many cases though where someone supposedly straight turned out to be homosexual. Regardless, I answered the question as to why in my long post from two days ago. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 2:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Warrior Spirit, you just think you have explain it, but really you didn't. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 2:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
How many cases, too many to count. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 2:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Oh yes, I did expalin it, straight from the medical journals. I will ask again, exactly how many cases? Like I said, I work with the LGBT community on an everday basis, and I have only seen one case. Personally, I doubt if you have seen even one case, and I am beginning to seriously doubt your claim to have once been gay yourself. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 2:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
The simple fact is that you do not chose to believe what medical science has shown to be fact. You are one of those people who hide behind their computers and their pesonal beliefs, and refuse to admit that there is a real world out there. Even members of NARTH and Exodus know exactly how many cases there has been of people going straight. The number is actually quite low, especially with those groups having a gretaer than 76% failure rate, and yes, those numbers are real and factual. They were admitted by one of their own who though he was straight and learned a short year later that he was not. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 4:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
LGBT are being Bias in almost everything. Where did you get that information about where Exodus has claimed. You failed to show where you got any of your information. |
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Date: 12/25/2002 6:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
drkptrs christians are biased to they say there book of "truth" is non-contradictory well how so? i mean theres parts in the bible that say god never changes his mind and i also have found parts that say he did at time whats that mean? and if he dont make mistakes why were humans ever made? couldnt "he" have seen we would screw everything up in the end |
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Date: 12/25/2002 8:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Drkptrs, most all my information comes from the group I work with. I will not post that group's name or links to it here since there are several medical professionals working directly with this group, and also because there are a couple of clergy members working with us directly. There privacy as well as the privacy of the people we provide services for is paramount, and to reveal there names or links that would give their names could open me up to a lawsuit. Our reference and research library though covers over 20 years of research material, and as I stated before, comes from research papers, medical journals, and seminars held by those involved in the health and care of transgendered individuals. Many of those seminars were sponsored by our group. Also, the facts on Exodus and NARTH comes from one of their own people, and were published publically, including testimony that stated the use of electro-shock therapy for treatment of homosexuals, a treatment method that many in the medical field are trying to get outlawed, and that has been outlawed in many civilized nations. |
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Date: 12/26/2002 5:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
Alot of these Medical Groups, what these groups claim to be as facts in medical science, I have seen where I can prove them wrong, not just homosexuality, but all kinds of medical issues as well. I would not say more, because I do not want to get any more off topic that we already. |
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Date: 12/26/2002 5:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
Warrior Spirit, if these groups would bring up a lawsuit for posting their information, then I would not even look at the information, even if you did show me. Any group who would sue in an instant like this should not be taken seriously. |
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Date: 12/26/2002 3:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Drkptrs, once again you do not read what is written. The site where much of this information is stored is a private site, for the members of the group I work with. It contains links to certain professionals that work with our group. The first rule for anyone who joins our group is personal privacy will be respected in all cases. Actually it is a security measure, because there are religous conservatives out there who think God's work is destroying the work of others. By the way, I was not aware that you are a medical genius. How many years of medical school did you say you had that you know more than teams of doctors with years of research behind them? Personally, I think you have fallen into the old trap of using the internet to make yourself bigger than you are. |
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Date: 12/26/2002 6:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Warrior Spirit, Quit twisting what I am saying. alot the claims you think I am saying, I am not saying. I never said that I was a medical Genius, or know anything of it. how did you get that idea. |
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Date: 12/27/2002 5:52:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
Second Thought, can you please teach me how to twist what people say, I would like to learn how. |
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Date: 12/28/2002 4:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
Drkptrs, here was what you wrote "what these groups claim to be as facts in medical science, I have seen where I can prove them wrong,". In other words, you are saying you are a medical genius. |
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Date: 12/28/2002 5:28:00 AM
From Authorid: 36967
So what if I seen these things not to be true, you do not need to be involved in medical science in order to witness these things. |
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Date: 12/28/2002 12:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Drkptrs, everything I have posted is factual and true. Do you care to try and prove any of it wrong? |
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Date: 12/28/2002 1:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
drkptrs goto the vatican to learn how people twist what others say |
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Date: 12/28/2002 2:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Warrior Spirit, based on what |
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Date: 12/28/2002 2:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
I already did. |
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Date: 12/28/2002 6:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
Jester, the Vatican, the Pope thinks he speaks for all Christians, well he does not speek for me. I dare to say that I do not believe that the Pope is even a Christian. |
| Date: 1/4/2003 6:54:00 PM From Authorid: 61969 Warrior all your Studyes are Done with an Agenda and this so called Group which you CANT NAME made these SO CALLED STUDIes why would they make a Legit Study and Not release the Info and if the Info was Released then Provide it. I am sure it was Done with an Agenda in Mind |
Date: 1/6/2003 6:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 59808
Yes they should. I get teased anyway about other things and my parents are straight. I think everyone gets teased atleast some point in their life, regardless of their parent's being straight or gay. And another thing is, what if their parents were straight, but they became gay? So the sexual status of the parents doesn't really have anything to do with it. xxx GC R!OT GURL  |
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Date: 1/6/2003 7:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 36967
R!OT GURL, Congradulations, you entered the 200th comment on this post. :-) |
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Date: 1/7/2003 5:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Chris, the group I work with does not do studies. They are a health and welfare support group, that works with transgendered persons. They have been gathering information from numerous sources for over 20 years, and disseminating that information for use. They have also worked closely with medical professionals in the field, as well as starting what has become one of the largest transgender conferences in the world. Those people who need the information this group has to offer know how to contact us. Those who do not need it, do not need to know. |
Date: 1/13/2003 5:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 56063
The way I see it if the child is going to have a home with two loving people who cares what what there sexuality is. Theres so many kids in orphanages that don't ever get the chance to have a family because of ignorant people just thinking of how wrong it is for gay/lesbians couples to adopt.  |
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Date: 2/27/2003 11:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 59214
I'm 100% for Gays adopting. We have 100's of kids living in hetero- homes where they are abused. And 100's of Gay couples wishing to adopt. I'd rather have gay parents, than abusive straight parents. Plus, studies have shown that kids did not 'turn out' homosexual because their parents are. And even if they did, it's not wrong. These kids diserve good homes. Places where gays aren't allowed to adopt did not create the laws to protect the children, they created the laws to 'protect' themselves. The law makers are old conservative overly religious white men. We need newer people. People with fresh ideas and NON biased and racist views on the world. Thats when the right decisions will be made and the children will finally be able to grow up in a loving enviornment.  |
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Date: 2/27/2003 12:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 59214
Also, the issue about taunting is just insane! Children are born every day with physical deformities. Many children are obese. Those things get children tunted and mocked, ALOT> I see it ALL the time. Do we NOT let overweight parents concieve on the off chance their kids will also be large? And with the, "It'll make the kids gay too!" issue, think about alcoholism. It's been proven alcoholism is hereditary. So drinkers have kids, and does the government care? No. They are both LAME excuses for homophobia. |
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