Date: 2/15/2003 2:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 4231
I dunno i agree, but we all must understand that it will come with great loss, and pain....  |
Date: 2/15/2003 2:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 47218
this isn't a war against the terrorists. It's a war against Iraq, which may or man not have a terrorist connection-- our government has been unsuccessful thusfar in proving that-- and even if they did have connection, they would not be alone among many other middle-eastern countries which we have no plans to invade. And when we do invade them-- we won't be killing terrorists. We'll be attacking Iraqi soldiers, there were probably be a lot of Iraqi citizens in the middle, not to mention casualties to people on our own side.  |
Date: 2/15/2003 2:31:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
Yes, as in most wars there will be colateral damage...such as there were when the US nuked Hiroshima & nagasaki...but it hastened an end to WWII...and saved more lives in the long-term.  |
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Date: 2/15/2003 2:33:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
Yes, as in most wars there will be colateral damage...such as there were when the US nuked Hiroshima & nagasaki & many thousands of innocent Japanese died...but it hastened an end to WWII...and saved more lives in the long-term. |
Date: 2/15/2003 2:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 17014
If it were up to me USA would never have gotten involved in any of our allies fights, but kept to ourselves. I'd rather not have them come over here and bomb and create riots on our turf. I value my life. But the government continues to endanger not only my life but everyone else who lives here.  |
Date: 2/15/2003 2:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
I think your thinking is flawed. Show me WHERE, in ANY conflict, only those who deserve to die are killed. I am all for 'extracting justice' (ie:blowing to smitherens) those who have attacked your country...but is Iraq the target are they?? Are the Iraqi people your countries threat are they?? Are they all terrorists are they?? Sorry, but I think right now so many people in this world are acting like a bunch of mal-adjusted teenagers...angry at how badly their parents treated them...so they rage and they hate and they lust for blood. They don't care WHO gets it in the neck...someone HAS to pay...anyone at all. Direction of rage is far better...if the aim is to remove Saddam then do it - send in small Assassination Squads (and believe me, even though America only recently repelled the 'No Political Assassinations' Agreement, there has always been an active Hit Squad or two kicking around) and eliminate him and his top leaders, remove them from the chain of command, from control and his troops will fold just as easily as they did during the Gulf War. Peace,  |
Date: 2/15/2003 3:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 36766
I'm w/ you TC...I say drop the bomb on them and forget about it  |
Date: 2/15/2003 3:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 15228
It really is amazing to think that the largest protests in living memory are all about keeping a psycopathic dictator in power.  |
Date: 2/15/2003 3:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 49742
I'm a peacenik but I do wish we could do what Agent Smith describes about assassin squads to target and do away with the awful leaders and terrorists. We need to save the innocent people of all countries from harm.  |
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Date: 2/15/2003 3:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
No Kelly...the largest Protests in history are NOT about keeping a psychopathic dictator in power...but attempting to minimise (or even cease) the impending high death toll of innocent civilians. Not everything is black and white in this world...not everyone is either a 'Peacenik' or 'itching for a fight'...not everyone is 'Pro-USA' or 'Pro-Terrorism'...not everyone is either 'For you' or 'Against you'...there are multiple shades of grey where the majority of people fall in between. Peace, |
Date: 2/15/2003 3:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 18527
well said Agent Smith  |
Date: 2/15/2003 4:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 58022
I LOVE your reasoning!  |
Date: 2/15/2003 4:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 38433
I agree with Agent Smith. Peacenik, if you will, although I prefer to call it "thinking outside the box".  |
Date: 2/15/2003 5:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
I am not a peacenik, nor am I itching for war. I have seen war up close and personal. I would be happy if no one ever again had to witness the sight of war. I do believe however, that it is time we pulled back within our borders and took care of our own. Most of those who hate us, hate us for one reason, because we put our nose in their business. If they want to kill each other, then let them do so. If they wish to attack us after we have pulled within our borders, then let them know, with all the might our armed forces can muster, that they just messed up.  |
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Date: 2/15/2003 5:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 49742
Very well said Agent Smith, that makes better sense. |
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Date: 2/15/2003 6:30:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
Remember that the terrorists are not interested in winning hearts & minds....all they really want is to kill Americans & Israelis. |
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Date: 2/15/2003 6:38:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
I've already admitted that there will be the inevitable death of innocent people. But it's OK for OUR innocent people (including Australians in Bali) to die...and with every likelyhood of more terrorist attacks? This Saddam guy deserves a bullet but that's not as easy as it sounds. |
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Date: 2/15/2003 6:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 42310
I think your wrong. There have been no proven ties with Iraq and terrorist organizations first of all. There has also been no shown proof that Iraq is developing weapons of mass destruction. Just because the Bush Administrations says there is dosnt mean that there actaully is. If there is then why dont they show it to us? There is a chance that sadam is making these weapons, but if not then what other insentive would bush have for going to war? How about OIL!? Are we going to go killing a bunch of people just to save a few cents at the pump? The best way to have peace is not through war but through peace. Bush just seem all to eger to start this war before considering other alternatives to the shead of human blood. Great things can be done and done in the name of peace. Just look at the indian revolution against britan. Not a bomb dropped or a shot fired. We can do the same. I would rather die by a mad warlike tyrant in the name of peace than have someone else die by my hand. |
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Date: 2/15/2003 6:54:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
If the evil regime of Saddam Hussein is spared & then he commits atrocities (as he has proven himself capable of doing when he gassed Kurdish people within his own country) just think of what else he is capable of. Us non-peacnik types will say "Told you so". |
Date: 2/15/2003 6:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 24732
Definantly not a peacenik, but not really itching for a fight either. I do agree with you for the most part though. And geeze people, how much proof do you want? We have a lot of proof, a whole hour+ worth of proof was broadcast on tv a couple of days ago. Perhaps another terror attack would give you some more proof? I bet even that wouldn't be enough for some people.  |
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Date: 2/15/2003 6:57:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. |
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Date: 2/15/2003 7:02:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
I suppose dying by the hand of a tyrant might be a good way to rid one's self of bad karma....and I don't necessarily think that going to war is a spiritual approach. On the other hand my human nature is to survive and to fight when threatened & pushed around. AAAAUUUM & pass the ammo. |
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Date: 2/15/2003 8:28:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
Please read "Why Fear Saddam". It's on USM's front page. It helps give some further insights into the Iraqi regime. |
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Date: 2/15/2003 8:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 15228
You are right Agent Smith, it isn't ONLY about keeping Saddam in Power. Watching the coverage of the anti-war protests that took place in Europe, it's also about Anti-Americanism, anti-semitism, pro-communism, there are lots and lots of things that are going on and it all isn't about the war. |
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Date: 2/15/2003 8:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 15228
Here is an eyewitness report from the rally in France: The rally today was hysterical. Iraqi and Palestinian flags were everywhere, and signs openly declared that the United States and Israel are Nazi regimes. One sign showed Bush with a Hitler mustache, and another featured Ariel Sharon slaughtering a Palestinian baby at a chopping block, with the words "Israel wants Palestinian blood." One of the rallying cries was "Kill Bush." Another, delivered in English, was "Hey Hey Ariel, Your stinking arse should go to jail." I kid you not. This rally was a display of anti-American and anti-Semitic sentiments the likes of which I have never before seen... |
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Date: 2/15/2003 9:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Kelly, with our track record concerning involvement with other countries affairs, it is no wonder they hate us. Also, I agree with a lot of people on Sharon. He should be tried for war crimes and atrocities. Other countries hate us because of our arrogance. 9-11 was just a wake up call, telling us that we needed to start minding our own business. The next attack will probably be far worse, and still, we will not learn our lesson. We will contiue to blame anyone we feel like, and make acusations, and we will be attacked even again. Eventually, we will learn to let others take care of their own problems, but it will probably be after a lot of Americans here lose their lives. The thing that gets me about all the people on USM that shout for war, is that I have only seen one or two who are actually military. Why don't all the rest that want war go down next week and sign up. Why make someone else do what you want to do. The answer is simple, talk is big when it comes to war, as long as someone else does the fighting. That is one reason I believe it is time for mandatory service for everyone between the ages of 18 and 25. Maybe once some of you have had the chance to see the ugly face of war up close, you will not be so quick to want it. |
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Date: 2/15/2003 9:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 15228
Warrior Spirit, I'm not even going to get into the hand wringing argument of why oh why do they hate us!!! They certainly take our money. They certainly are busting down our doors to get in. No, sorry, last I looked it was England and France that use to go all over the world to colonize other countries, not us. We set up Democracies and leave. When it comes right down to it, France and Germany want to run Europe, which has the other Europeans countries up in arms. France and Germany are the ones alone for the most part. |
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Date: 2/15/2003 10:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
...really not point in debating the point with you, is there Kelly...you have your opinion and view of the protest action - I, on the other hand, having participated in the one here in NZ can tell you that those I talked to were adamant 'something' needed to be done, Saddam needed to be removed from power...though also saw the inevitability or thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians stuck between it all about to get blitzed. If you think its about Anti-Americanism or anything like that, then I'm afraid you are mistaken...our hearts rang out with tears and anger on 9-11 too, for NZers died that day also, we were there to help rebuild, we were there (in fact some of the first troops to hit the sands) in Afghanistan to seek out and bring to justice the Taliban and associated groups. So if you think these protests are about Anti-Americanism...then I suspect you own anger is blinding you. Peace, |
Date: 2/15/2003 11:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 19382
tut tut. There's that improper use of 'fundamentalist' again. They aren't fundamentalists, they're are fanatical extreme-ists. And I guess you'd call me a peace-nik, but I am itching for something.  |
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Date: 2/15/2003 11:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 19382
I find it amusing that when palastinians kill isreali's it's a terrorist act. But when isreali's kill palastinians, its a police action, or just looked over. They are both as bigoted against the other as eachother. Also, American civilain lives are more important than Iraqi civilian lives? That's just unspeakable. |
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Date: 2/16/2003
From Authorid: 21867
...and no-one said it was okay for your citizens to die at the hands of terrorists TC...nor Australians, nor New Zealanders nor people from many other countries in both the Bali and the initial 9-11 attacks. Once again...not every thing is an 'all or nothing affair' which some people seem intent on making this. Yes we (or at least I) feel something needs to be done, yes I fully support Saddam being removed, yes I fully support justice being sort for those many thousands of innocent souls who were taken so horribly...but NO I do not support the same pain/anguish etc being reaped upon MORE innocent civilians, and NO I do not support any idea of weighing up a foriegners life over your own countrymen...they have just ask much right to live out their lives without having an American bullet ripping through them, or having a Dictator gas them...as you have the right not to be sitting in your office one day and have a Boeing Airliner come through your window. It is NOT okay for your people to die...what I am saying is that its also NOT okay for other countries people to die either. Peace, |
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Date: 2/16/2003 9:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 15228
The reality is that the United States has shown incredible restraint in our use of power. I don't doubt that if France or many other countries had the power that we have, they would be far more likely to use it around the world. As a result, they not only resent our power, and see opposing it as a way to further their own influence – but they are also scared of our power, because they cannot imagine that we would not use it for imperialistic purposes as they themselves would. |
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Date: 2/16/2003 12:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
So basically: "France would have done worse...and they're just jealous anyway" Wow...I wasn't aware that you knew all of France and the Leaders of France personally, to be able to make such a statement... |
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Date: 2/16/2003 1:59:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
The world has spoken...and the doves have won, and the hawks have lost. So LET THERE BE PEACE! Not that Bush will change his mind about the war. Saddam says thanks...and let's just hope that he won't let us down by pulling some evil & sneaky trick |
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Date: 2/16/2003 2:02:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
Hey folks...I'm not as war-like as I may have sounded. I have just readjusted my medication and have now joined the rest of the world in singing "All we are saying is give peace a chance". |
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Date: 2/16/2003 2:09:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
In case America and England go to war with Iraq, perhaps they could refrain from bombing areas where civilians are most likely to be found. If we were to launch a land invasion, the armed-forces could be alot more discriminating in whom gets targeted and killed. |
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Date: 2/16/2003 2:24:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
If I were 30 years younger (I'm 52) and was physically healthy (I'm not) I very well might be in the armed-forces at this time. I am a Vietnam Era veteran. I had much more ambivalent feelings about that war because I believed (and still believe) that that conflict wasn't our business...and because no Vietnamese had ever attacked America. But this is different; the terrorists have attacked us and I believe in self-defense. |
Date: 2/16/2003 9:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 51070
I'm all for peace.  |
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Date: 2/16/2003 9:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 51070
I'd rather get into a cat-fight at school; hair pulling, swearing, and shoving someone against a locker. I feel very violent towards this one skank in school who is just so mean to everyone who isn't popular. SHE deserves to get shoved down a tall set of spiral stairs, what with all the mean things that come out of her mouth. Oh, wait. |
Date: 2/17/2003 5:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 15998
It seems to me that either way we go we are screwed. We'll never truly be safe, and we will never catch all the terrorists... or even most. This is especially true because... what does a terorist look like? There is no specific description, you cannot know what a terrorist looks like. Of course if we don't do anything they will also probably do something anyways. I guess it is the difference between "being killed" or "killing and being killed". I don't really know, I'm kind of torn on this. However, I love and respect my country, as well as God, and I know that one day things will be okay. I don't know.... it's really confusing for me I guess. Personally, I think America needs to keep out of everyone else's business. Then maybe we wouldn't have problems like this.  |
Date: 2/17/2003 6:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
i thought saddam and the al queda hate eachother  |
Date: 2/17/2003 11:00:00 PM
From Authorid: 61999
I'm going to not choose peace-nik or itchy. I'm all for going to war. I'm all for blowing Afghanistan off the map, rather than playing "Where's Bin-Laden?". But I'm NOT for this little tryst that Bush has started. Why? Because all he's doing is trying to avenge "daddy's" folly (not to mention the whole Oil thing). This is something personal for him, so no matter how the world protest his idiocy (might or might not be a real word), he's going to move forward with this. I mean, we're not even GOING for Bin Laden anymore, we're just all on this Hussein kick. It is not our job to police other nations. We are not the UN. If the UN says no, then we shouldn't go forward. But we'll go forward, we'll lose our UN backing, we'll lose our allies and we'll lose our standing as the Greatest Nation in the World. And then where will we be? Wide open for more terrorist attacks. Thanks so much, Bush Regime. You've made my early 20s quiet memorable. ~The Mighty DreamGyrl~  |
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Date: 2/18/2003 12:10:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
Where were all the darn peace protestors when Clinton invaded the Balkans? |
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Date: 2/18/2003 12:13:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
I think all the aggressive kids and gangstas (who aren't totally beyond redemption might consider enlisting in the armed forces and using all that destructive energy in something half way useful...like ridding the world of terrorists. |
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Date: 2/18/2003 12:15:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
Some days I feel like a peacenik...and other days I feel pretty darn itchy. |
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Date: 2/18/2003 12:18:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
Yeah...I bet poppa Bush is saying "Go son go...finish what I should have finished the first time around"! |
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Date: 2/18/2003 12:24:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
It's true that not all terrorists look alike: Tim McVeigh with his blue-eyed all-American boy looks was far from looking like the stereotypical, swarthy, middle eastern fanatic. |
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Date: 2/18/2003 12:29:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 177
If we could develop eficient non-petroleum based resources we wouldn't have to be dependent on it...or accused of lusting after other countries oil. |
Date: 2/18/2003 9:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 37900
The more precisely the problem is defined, the more likely we will find a workable solution. Our issue is not necessarily with the people of Iraq, but with the political system that encourages and supports terrorism. We must target only those who have shown a willingness to disrupt or end our way of life. A scorched-earth philosophy of handling this situation will not be in our best interest. I am in favor of a war, but only because it seems clear that Saddam has no intention of keeping his word. It is a troublesome position, because, invariably, someone will die to preserve my way of life. A peaceful solution is always ideal, but war is sometimes the only option. I believe this is one of those times.  |
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Date: 2/18/2003 10:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 61999
Quote: Yeah...I bet poppa Bush is saying "Go son go...finish what I should have finished the first time around"! -- TC. Well dubya doesn't really have his own brain, so it's just daddy and Dick Chaney standing behind him, pulling the strings behind his head like the little puppet he is. Nothing he says is good enough for me to agree with going to war with Iraq. I'm not going to follow him blindly. ~~The Mighty DreamGyrl~~ |
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Date: 2/19/2003 10:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 15228
New Slogan for all you peaceniks: Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism, Nazism and Communism, War Has Never Solved Anything... |
Date: 2/19/2003 10:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 25828
yes..lets kill the terrorists...we need this war. i also think it's nice how MUCH britain's tony blair is behind us. i think we should take note of that when everyone else is backing off - he should have our support from now on.  |
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Date: 2/19/2003 11:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 15228
Heather, good point about Tony Blair. Makes you wonder what HE knows, or else why would he put his political career on the line just to become Bush's "lap-Dog" as he is accused of being (plus much worse). |
