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Date: 3/19/2003 10:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 43807
yeah, i see your point. i dont know too much to form my own opinion about this through..haven't given it too much thought really.  |
Date: 3/19/2003 10:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
Traitors? no....Stupid? Yes......:) Good post  |
Date: 3/19/2003 10:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 47166
It's not stupidity, it's people courageous enough to die for their beliefs. it is not tantamount to treason, it is, quite literally, their freedom of speech. They are exercising their right to protest in a way that will gain attention and get their message heard. To prosecute them would be the same as prosecuting me for speaking out against Bush and our current military acts. They are, by no means whatsoever, stupid; they are passionate enough about upholding that ideal "Thou shall not kill," even if it costs them their lives.  |
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Date: 3/19/2003 10:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 47166
Lady Spirit Guide, I'm shocked! I never would have guessed that you would think so little of someone who is so passionate about their beliefs that they would rather die than be part of the force which would destroy them. |
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Date: 3/19/2003 10:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 5301
...another way to protest the war... ... ...Reuters Wednesday, March 19, 2003; 4:25 PM SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A man protesting the looming U.S. war on Iraq fell to his death from San Francisco's famed Golden Gate Bridge on Wednesday as he was hanging a banner, officials said. "He appears to have been hanging a banner of some kind," said California Highway Patrol officer Timothy Willock. "We're not sure if he decided to jump or slipped while he was, you know, hanging the banner. That's unclear right now." Anti-war sentiment is strong in the San Francisco Bay Area but the death of the man in his 30s was the first related to the latest protests over the U.S.-led war against Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.  |
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Date: 3/19/2003 10:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
if they want to protest in our country, fine. But going to Saddam's sandbox & putting themselves in harm's way? Do you think when their Mothe's carried them for 9 months, they ever dreamed their babies would die for a ruthless murder, like Saddam....yes, I think anyonewho wld go to Iraq & put teselves in harm's way is either very naive, or ....stupid. |
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Date: 3/19/2003 10:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
*Grrr*.....I do need a new keyboard! (spilled a cup of cappichino in mine...) |
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Date: 3/19/2003 10:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
Hekler-that is tragic! Poor man. He was foolish, but he should not have died! |
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Date: 3/19/2003 11:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 47166
They aren't trying to protect that psycho, they are trying to protect the iraqi citizens who will die because of this war, and yes, they may be naive, but I don't think they are stupid. |
Date: 3/19/2003 11:04:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42676
Any time you do anything to help or protect the enemy is considered being a traitor. Now those people who went to Iraq to be human shields could have ended up being hostages! That would have presented a problem for our troops and pilots. If they had been taken hostage, then the first thing they would have been crying why is the goverment taking so long to get us out. I believe if you put yourself in that position, then you gave up all your rights as a US citizen and you would be on your own. Tough luck!  |
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Date: 3/19/2003 11:10:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42676
Futhermore, Clukenvar, those "innocent Iraqi citizens" seem awfully ready to give their lives for this murderer. Check out some of the news footage and see how happy these folks seems to be. They're walking around shouting "Death to America and things like that, and we have people who wants to be "human shields" for them? Come on now!! |
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Date: 3/19/2003 11:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 47166
The Iraqi citizens have been brainwashed through censorship, they do not have the ability to choose what to believe, as all news media in their country is closely regulated by their government. You seem to think that they share the same liberties as we do, but that is very wrong. Iraqi government controls Iraqi T.V. which portrays Americans as even more brutally imperialistic than we really are, kind of like how our media portrayed the Germans in WWII. They do not have the freedom to chose their beliefs, you can't get much more innocent than that. |
Date: 3/19/2003 11:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 32806
To start with you cant compare the girl who died under a bulldozer with the people who give themselves as human shields. I would agree with LSG. Yea they may not be literally stupid but this particular choice of action is stupid.  |
Date: 3/19/2003 11:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 14226
Since when were Iraqi citizens the enemy? I thought it was saddam that we were after not the innocent people he's dictating??  |
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Date: 3/19/2003 11:44:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42676
Even though the Iraqi govt. controll the news and tv, I Can't agree with you on that Clukinvar about them being brainwashed because too many of them have relatives living here in the USA who knows better and probably have told them that. Those people's actions may be watched and controlled but they can chose to believe whatever they feel. This is one of Saddam's main fears. |
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Date: 3/19/2003 11:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42676
Eclispes, every time I see news footages of the Iraqi people, they are always in a frenzy about America. They badmouth our president and constantly speak of the destruction of America. I'm not saying that all are like this but that is mostly what I see every time someone interviews them or are allowed to speak to them. In this instance, I consider them enemies. Either when the US drive him from power or the Iraqi people arise and help us overthrow him, then to me they will be considered the enemy. |
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Date: 3/19/2003 11:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 14226
why is better that Iraqi civillans die rather than the 'possiblity' that USA civillans will die? WHat makes those lives better than an Iraqi's? luv, |
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Date: 3/19/2003 11:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 14226
well I must admit capitol if some was threatening to kill my friends and family I would probably have a hate for them aswell. But I do understand what your saying... they may be brain washed from propaganda and so on. I just wish we were told the whole truth. love, |
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Date: 3/19/2003 11:57:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42676
Sagi 10, the girl was a human shield. She put herself between that bulldozer and that house trying to prevent its destruction. That was a human shield, my friend. |
Date: 3/20/2003 12:10:00 AM
From Authorid: 19382
We need more people like her ("a young lady in Israel died trying to protect the home of some of the same people who would blow themselves up in downtown Jerusalem") in the world, and less people like you, who just can't grasp the concept.  |
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Date: 3/20/2003 12:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 19382
apologies, didn't see you're last reply. I'm just reather pi$$ed off at the moment. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 12:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 19382
apologies, didn't see you're last reply. I'm just reather pi$$ed off at the moment. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 12:14:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42676
Eclispes, my dear sweet friend, no one life is better than the other. But it may be expedient that some Iraqis'might have to be sacraficed in order to prevent another "9/11" incident. The man has WMD and we are there to topple him from power. Imagine if he was to continue at his present rate, an incident far worse than 9/11 could occur. If these innocent Iraqis decide to give there life for him, then they will have to die. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 12:16:00 AM
From Authorid: 19382
USA has WMD. N.K. has WMD. U.K. has WMD. India, Pakistan has WMD. Russia. China. Need I go on? |
Date: 3/20/2003 12:16:00 AM
From Authorid: 21867
Ummm...pretty sure the 'Human Shields' went across NOT to protect or aid Saddam, but the innocent civilians who have the unfortunate situation of living next to what are being designated 'legitimate targets'. Does that make them traitors?? To care so much for those innocents about to die they would consider doing that?? Sad indeed if you think so. Perhaps we should get the petrol and the crosses ready, tie the rope to the tree and have ourselves a good ol' fashion lynching when these traitors come back huh?? |
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Date: 3/20/2003 12:21:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42676
Ship P, we need more brains like you. I know of no one in God's creation who would give their life trying to protect the very same person who was out to destroy them. Talk about not grasping the concept! |
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Date: 3/20/2003 12:41:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42676
Sure, all the countries mentioned by Ship P. have WMD, but who besides Iraq has used them without justification and especially against his own people? And to you Agent Smith, if my goverment has designated an area a "legitimate target" and I go there and make myself a "shield" just because some "innocent" people dont have the sense to get out from that area, then I am preventing the govt. from carrying out its mission and that would be considered sabotage under the rules of the Uniform Military Code Of Justice. A person may be charged with treason under this code. Any impediment in the operation of any mission of the US govt. is a serious charge whether they're military or civilian. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 12:45:00 AM
From Authorid: 19382
(')_(') .... Just think about the concept a while. It's all revenge bombings there. If there's nothing to avenge, there's no excuse/reason. And you lie, there was her. There's one you know of. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 12:59:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42676
Ship Pagan, you are an alright guy!!LOL |
Date: 3/20/2003 1:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 37900
People who deliberately put themselves in harm's way are not aiding and abetting the enemy, they're aiding and abetting the morticians. They are ending their lives needlessly, especially if they have been warned not to be in a particular place. It is unfortunate they have so little regard for their influence and lives.  |
Date: 3/20/2003 5:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 57116
Ok, let's see...folks deliberately going into a war zone...where they know they will be getting bombed...most folks with any sense at all would be trying to get OUT of there...all I have to say to these folks is...YOU! Out of the gene pool!!!  |
Date: 3/20/2003 5:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 47218
I laughed when most of them fled Iraq because they realized that they were in serious danger. Guess they were expecting a big beach party, or something.  |
Date: 3/20/2003 6:28:00 AM
From Authorid: 24856
Human Shields are doing no more than exercising their right to "passive resistance". If blood shed occurs, it will not change just because they make their stand against it. I don't view them as traitors though......  |
Date: 3/20/2003 7:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 10722
Dumb ignorant morons they are. They'll only add to the casualties if they needlessly put themselves in harms way.  |
Date: 3/20/2003 7:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 25828
traitors..and they shouldn't be let back in the country for fear of death..which, i believe is still the punishment for traitors..  |
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Date: 3/20/2003 8:31:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42676
I'm with you Heather... |
Date: 3/20/2003 9:25:00 AM
From Authorid: 2030
The good thing about human shields? Well for one it means that there will soon be a few less liberal morons breathing my air.  |
Date: 3/20/2003 9:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 53284
If you stand in the way of a cruise missle you don't have a very good chance of stopping it. I see these people as missguided at the best.  |
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Date: 3/20/2003 12:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
...its interesting you utilise War Codes to justify such a position...when if you were to apply the International Codes of War to the situation, you would find that your country has just committed a War Crime by its attack...oh thats right, you guys withdrew from that international council a while ago...convenient... |
Date: 3/20/2003 4:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 47699
Capitol, I agree with you. They are traitors.  |
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Date: 3/20/2003 4:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 47699
I also agree with Heather and BCAR. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 5:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
Agent Smith, I know your govenment does not speak for you, the individual, but the Ausse government has already pledged it's troops to support us, with ground forces. Therefore, by all logic, if WE (US) are commiting a "war crime", so is England & your own country. Just a thought..... |
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Date: 3/20/2003 5:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
very true LSG...wildbob, i think that just goes to show the less human shields, the better the gene pool.. |
Date: 3/20/2003 5:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 27270
clukinvar, if they feel it's a good cause to die for and are willing to, then I have no sympathy for them when they are dead. I know that is brash, but it's not like they expected to leave ALIVE. By all means, yes, it is their right, but they shouldn't expect sympathy or "martyrdom" from me for it  |
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Date: 3/20/2003 6:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 19382
LSG. 1. It's Aussie. 2. Agent Smith is not Australian. 3. I despise our (Australian) government (but not our soldiers) for what they have done/are doing. 4. 'traitors..and they shouldn't be let back in the country for fear of death..which, i believe is still the punishment for traitors' -- petty and childish. |
Date: 3/20/2003 6:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
now lets walk threw reality, we have the freedom of speech and the right to protest. to charge these people with treason would be unconstitutional  |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 19382
whoops, my 4th point was directed at Heather and the others of her same opinion. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
o.k....Ship Pagan, my Bad. I missed the "i" in Aussie, sorry for mis-identifying AS, and I never said anything about "'traitors..and they shouldn't be let back in the country for fear of death..which, i believe is still the punishment for traitors' "..wanna re-read my comments?I am being civil here...... |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
opppss.....typed that before I got your "message". Sorry, Ship Pagan. Emotions are high tonight. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
petty and childish eh? let see, your posts are all about video games and jokes..and i'm supposed to care what YOU think is petty and childish? LOL...right. go play some warcraft III |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
he's talking to me LSG.i said it and meant it. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
actually-I really respect Heather & her opinions. I also respect the fact, she speaks her mind. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 19382
I play games and enjoy a bit of humour, means I must be petty and childish. But acting like a spoilt child in a sandpit who was stopped by other childeren from pulling down another childs sandcastle, wishing them dead, makes me mature. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
maybe she says it too bluntly LSG *-) |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
no one's been stopped doing anything pagan - - - all i did was make an observation.....you think you're the enlightened one of your clan eh? 8-) i stated a fact..it is punishable by DEATH here to be a traitor to one's country - you're the one that first called a name..see, who's petty and childish????????? the one who said it, that's who |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
and yes...i do wish traitors dead - - - or locked up for life..which is what they just did to a young man that was trying to sell secrets to iraq and china ---------we've gotten a bit more civilized..we'll let them rot forever in jail and be manhandled by BIG patriots for the rest of their lives --yeah..that's the more humane thing to do! *-) |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 47166
Capitol- I've been gone since my last reply, and haven't gotten to see your response until now. Here's an example of how much thought the Iraqi people are allowed to have- did you know that there is always a 100% voter turn out in Iraq? And that every vote is for Saddam? Why? Not because they all love Saddam (which about 90% of them do cause of his fictitious image) but because in Iraq if you don't vote, and that vote is not for Saddam- you die. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 19382
Did you miss my point? Or simply choose to? |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
i didn't find a point in it - - if i had i could have ripped it . |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
i saw that you made a bad analogy..i saw that you were being sarcastic..but i didn't see a point in it other than you used those called names once again..petty and childish - - - |
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Date: 3/20/2003 7:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 25828
i wasn't wanting to argue just to state my opinion and you chose to use my name --so i'll happily come back to morrow (cause i'm off here for tonight - better to get paid to surf usm anyway)...happily will i come back and debate you as looooooooooong as you like - - - i much enjoy it when someone tests me personally *-) |
Date: 3/20/2003 8:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 24845
I completley agree. I think it is traitorist. If you live in America I think you would WANT to support it. After all it's YOUR country, where your family and friends live. You would want help protect it, even if it is only it words. I understand that it's a person's right to disagree or agree. I would think there would be other ways of getting your point across without being stupid enough to put your self in the line of fire. If they get killed, which is horrible in it's own light, then you brought it on yourself for putting your self in that situation. My opinion but if you disagree, march or protest or whatever, but I would think you should have the sense enough to put common sense in it.  |
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Date: 3/20/2003 8:25:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42676
OK folks! I posted this thing for a discussion, not for anyone to get out of line here. Let's keep it in the right perspective, and show a little respect for Ginger and Rad. Thank you all for your comments on this post and next time let's be a little more civil. |
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Date: 3/20/2003 8:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
this is a debate section not for discussions |
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Date: 3/20/2003 8:59:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 42676
My bad, Jest.....lol |
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Date: 3/20/2003 10:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 21867
...cheers for pointing out I'm not an Aussie Ship Pagan...by the way, looking forward to the NRL this year - NZ Warriors all the way:) |
Date: 3/20/2003 10:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 43250
Am I the only one that saw this? From Clukenvar "Iraqi government controls Iraqi T.V. which portrays Americans as even more brutally imperialistic than we really are, kind of like how our media portrayed the Germans in WWII." So if I understand this the Germans were NOT imperialistic in World War 2? Is that what you were trying to say?  |
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Date: 3/21/2003 9:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 47166
MI 23, you misunderstand me. If you've ever seen American propaganda from the WWII era, they portray Germans, Italians, and Japanese as over-the-top stereotypes and ruthless, women-raping, blood-drinking monstrosities. Of course they were imperialistic, but not all the citizens were monsters. It's always like that in war- every country portrays it's opponents as ruthless monsters, and Iraq has been portraying us thusly since 1991. And, my name is Clukinvar, with an "I." Don't take it personally, you're the second person in this post to spell it wrong. ;) |
Date: 3/21/2003 10:46:00 AM
From Authorid: 54532
Hey its what they want to do then let them do it. I think its a dumb thing to do though. They are peacenicks who dont understand the sitchuation at hand.  |
Date: 3/21/2003 12:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 54111
WHOA what a hot debate. Well I do value life, they are protesting a cause . I don't see nothing wrong with that, but as the author says when you do something as step in a war zone where people don't care about you and get killed. Its sad but its what you choose.  |
Date: 3/26/2003 12:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 61104
human sheilds or traitors? Neither! How about stupid idiots with no self worth. I am opposed to this war but I will not risk my own. That proves nothing but stupidity!!  |
Date: 3/29/2003 7:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 37073
Out of all the ways to protest, I find this the most stupid way to protest. I'm sorry but if they put their self's in harm's way then they deserve to die.  |
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Date: 3/29/2003 7:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 37073
Plus I'm offend by these idiots. But that is my opinion. I want get so upset if they protested any other way. |
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