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Date: 7/10/2003 8:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 15677
my professor in college taught us about how religion was started to control the masses an like anything else the masses had thier seperate groups an beliefs  |
Date: 7/10/2003 8:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 34476
Yes. It is called the "church". The "ekklesia" when referencing the Greek. The gathering. An assembly. It is not a building, but a collection of individuals who try to follow what God has said in His scriptures. Study the New Testament, and see how many so-called "churches" actually follow Christ's teachings ..... there are very few. But, they are there if one only wishes to look for them :)  |
Date: 7/10/2003 8:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 10798
Just remember that although man might fail and religious organizations might be flawed or even corrupt, God is still real and still in control. Our relationship has to be with Him alone and in Him alone should we trust.  |
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Date: 7/10/2003 9:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
A street I used to live on had regular visits from JWs, they'd come round knocking on doors every six months or so. They always came in pairs, one older, more experienced one and another quite young one, presumably some sort of initiate, being shown the ropes. A friend of mine was visited by such a pair, and he started to ask the young one why she believed in what she did. She said, quite innocently, that it was what she had always been taught to believe by her family. He probed a bit further, and her expression changed as it suddenly dawned on her, for the first time in her life, that the only reason she had her beliefs was because that is what she had been taught since childhood. She realised that never in her life had she thought to question what she had been told by her family and church. The older one quickly ushered her away before any more damage was done to her flimsy grasp on religion.  |
Date: 7/10/2003 10:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
No Organization has all the answers. No Earthly organization can.>....."Religion" is man-made & for controlling the masses. "Faith" is a matter in the Heart & Soul  |
Date: 7/11/2003 12:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 46530
LSG has it here for me. The churches and religions are just outdated tools to have power over the people. Look at things like titheing and mass. "If you dont do these things you cannot go to church. No church go to hell. Oh by the way did we say hell is bad???"  |
Date: 7/11/2003 12:47:00 AM
From Authorid: 3125
Jesus and His apostles gave us the rules which we are to follow. We must stay within God's Word in order to be right with God. Paul states that if anyone comes to us with any other gospel other than what Christ and His apostles have already preached, then we are not to believe it. Any book or any other teaching other than what God has given unto us is not of God but they of men. People have and they continue to make their own religion organizations and draw many followers after them. God says all these are false and not to be trusted. Just as you can see some of the errors in the teachings of JW's you can also see the errors of many other man made religious organizations by comparing their teaching to what God teaches us. Seek and you shall find.  |
Date: 7/11/2003 6:03:00 AM
From Authorid: 44960
Religion is nothing more than a man-made placement of fear on others and I refuse to buy in to it.  |
Date: 7/11/2003 7:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 58611
I have heard JW's are a cult and are taught to disown thier own mother and father if they do not believe like the JW's do....that doesn't sound very godly to me...And also they are taught never to question what they are being told....Hmm, wonder why? I just dont think any of that sounds very godly to me at all. It sounds more like mind control.  |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:14:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
AquaRose, your right, we had a boy living with us once , he had been dating my daughter sue, and I asked him if he knew Jesus, we got to talking and he decided he wanted Jesus as his personal savior. His parents were JW and then disowned him, thats why he moved in with us. HE was only 17 at the time. There are churches out there that teach the whole bible, but there are so many out there that have their own agenda and butcher the doctrin of Jesus for their own benifit and manipulation. I believe in the Lord Jesus with all my heart my soul and mind, but I have given up on Church. The bible says to no forsake our selves in fellowship and I dont, I fellow ship with people and on line, but I just havnt found a church for so long without their own little agenda and what I call a bless me club. Bless me, but do not bless that heathen down the road. Ya know, THEY dont know that the so called heathen down the road may end up at their church doors in the future. I dont know perhaps I'm bitter about the organized church setting. Ya know the ones?? The ones that care more rather thier bake sale gets off the ground , than if the person that lives next to the church has food, or clothes, or may be living in a card board box??? Sorry. got to go to work now, be back later.  |
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Date: 7/11/2003 9:17:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
so many say, I have faith, I have faith, I say to them show me your FAITH by your works! |
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Date: 7/11/2003 9:18:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
And I dont mean by pounding on doors, I mean by helping your fellow man. Oh lordy I better go, I'm getting on my soap box now. |
Date: 7/11/2003 10:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 12835
It's really not fair to call the Jehovah's Witnesses a cult unless you are prepared to call all organized religions a cult. I haven't seen an organized religion yet that doesn't have flaws. However, there are many paths to God, and it's not our job to judge others or their path. If it doesn't work for you, just accept that, and move on....  |
| Date: 7/11/2003 11:24:00 AM From Authorid: 42940 I was pondering this same question myself. The Bible verse that keeps coming to my mind is 1 John 4:1 "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." Now when I took the advice of this Bible verse and tested the Watchtower, it didn't pass. In fact it failed miserably time and time again. And, before anyone else wants to comment "just get over it, just move on" (or the like) first, at least know what you're talking about. It's not so simple. The Watchtower won't let you just walk away. The Watchtower makes sure to label you "apostate". The Watchtower makes sure that your only friends (other JW's - the only ones you are allowed to associate with) and family shun you. They'll even keep coming to your home every year to "sheperd" you (i.e. try and make you come back). This is their "loving arrangement". I applaud you Jim. I know it takes a lot of courage to walk away from the Watchtower. It takes even more courage to expose its false teachings. I'm right here for you my friend. *** bad kitty *** |
Date: 7/11/2003 11:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 19092
Interesting post and replies. I only want to share one verse, John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." Sorry St. Pete, but this verse declares only ONE way to God. These are the words of Jesus, my savior. I do not believe there are "many paths to God". This is why it is so important to share the "Good News".  |
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Date: 7/11/2003 12:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 58611
Here is an interesting read: http://www.dtl.org/cults/treatise/jws-cult-.htm If you agree ok, if not move on. |
Date: 7/11/2003 12:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 62060
I think that it is the different denominations within Christianity that are man made and so faulted, not the religion itself. There are so many disagreements and differences within one religion, that there is no way they all can be right.  |
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Date: 7/11/2003 12:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
God has not only told us in His word, but by His holySpirit, that if what they are preaching and teaching do NOT line up with the word of God, they are not of Him. God clearly speaks of hell and the torments there of, yet some religions will not accept Gods word. Some religion believe that you can be baptised for the dead and that NO MATTER what they did in life, THEY will make heaven. OR one of the heavens as the belief is that you can basically work your way up. Gee, I see NO where where God tells us that. WE are to choose while we are alive. NOT a CHURCH mind you, but a living relationship with our Lord. I'm prepare to call those that dont preach our Lords word a cult, and a false church. And the JW only think that 144,000 is going to heaven anyway, so whats the use of pounding on doors? The bible says, the 144,000 is male virgins , so women looks like you may as well play the harlet if your in that religion as YOUR going no where fast. These 144,000 are going to be on earth to witness, they are NOT the only ones going to heaven. KING:: I dont believe there are many paths to God either. I mean that is clearly new age and pagan thinking. Gods word is right, Man has made a mess of it. They add to it they take away from it. God with Jesus our Lord, or as God says, seek ye first the kingdom of God. |
Date: 7/11/2003 1:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 54111
Yeah I have to agree with KC and Firstborn. I could go to church everyday and give the money to the church...that doesn't make me heavenbound. Only Jesus is the way. I was baptized, that still doesn't make me heavenbound. As KC said you can only go through Jesus.  |
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Date: 7/11/2003 2:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 12835
King, it also stated in the Bible if your child was a drunk or unruley, to take them to the edge of the village and stone them to death....Now that is "Good News".... |
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Date: 7/11/2003 2:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
yes but st. pete, that is the old testament and were under a new covenant. Personally I choose to believe the Bible over doctrin of man. |
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Date: 7/11/2003 2:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 12835
Hi my friend FirstBorn. I guess that brings up a good point. Why buy and read the Old Testament if it is outdated. |
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Date: 7/11/2003 3:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 19092
Yes Pete, the scripture you reference is Deuteronomy 21:18-21. This scripture also goes back to Exodus 20:12 Honor your Father and Mother...God expected them not to tolerate juvenile delinquency, which at heart is overt disrespect for parents and authority. And yes, capital punishment could apply. This was when man was under "the law". Noone got saved by the "law". Not much different than Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. The "Good News" is about the "New Covenant" and forgiveness through Jesus Christ. And on another note, A standard I've used to determine "false" religions or "cults" is this...if they teach any other way of salvation other than "saved by grace" through Jesus Christ then it's a cult and false... |
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Date: 7/11/2003 6:59:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 13952
everyone thank you for all your comments and bad kitty my friend thank you for your constant support and friendship....I believe that the bible teaches that we all stand before the Almighty on our own merit and the things that we have done or not done....I have found nothing that states that we are saved by belonging to an organization...but if this makes you a good person and a good citizen....then by all means do what helps make you a good person....I just find it hard to believe that if you truly feel that you have the "truth that leads to eternal life" that you will throw away family and friends and turn your back on them...........but I guess we all have to do what is right for ourselves and let the chips fall were they may.......  |
Date: 7/11/2003 7:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 22080
everyone knows the JW's are a bit screwy, sad thing is my initials are JW  |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
I'd just like to say that I admire you for telling us this. It is a hard journey you have undertaken to shrug off the shackles of this sect. It won't be easy, but once your mind begins to free itself the journey will become easier.  |
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Date: 7/11/2003 9:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
The reason st. pete that we buy and read the old testament is because there is so much prophecy in the old testament that tells us what is going to happen in the end times. It fortells of Jesus, it shows us by example the things that other did that we need to be wary of and not do. The old testament tells us not to eat meat yet the new one tells us that we can. So st.pete, do you eat pork? Steak, that might be med rare? It also tells women to go into a tent for those seven days of the month and tells what to do, yet do you see any women doing that today?? No because we have a new covenant with the lord JESUS. |
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Date: 7/12/2003 12:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 12835
You know, the tent idea wasn't a bad idea....hehehe... |
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Date: 7/12/2003 12:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 12835
King, have you ever studied any other religions ? or only that what you were taught by your parents growing up ? I think most people get comfortable with what they were taught, and never look outside for other truths. Remember, the Church persecuted anyone who taught that the earth was not the center of the world.... |
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Date: 7/12/2003 12:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 12835
^^^that should say universe. |
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Date: 7/12/2003 1:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 19092
LOL@St. Pete, I love your sense of humor. Your a good man Pete. The church I attend uses only the bible as God's word. It is very plain, simple, and conservative. I do not care to pursue other religions that change or add to God's word. The only other thing I care to add to this reply is that I think it should have been the "week before" that they were sent to their tents...that PMS thing creates much misery... |
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Date: 7/13/2003 9:12:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
Well st. pete , I too answered your question but apparently my computer didnt allow it to come through or it was deleted? As you know I wasnt rasied in any religion, didnt find the lord until I was 35, so I'm not going by what I learned as a child . My granny did have me baptised in the mormon church when I was eight years old, and I use to attend for a about two years but sadly they never taught me salvation through Jesus. I did go to the baptist church and they too did not teach me salvation through accepting Jesus, only that I needed to be baptised. Even my own ex husband after he was born again, only kept saying you need to be saved. BUT never told me how to do it. I searched, I even looked into pagan and occult religions to see if that was the way. I found Jesus and finally, and I'm sticking with Him and what I consider to be his word. In the book of revelation it says not to add to or take away from the bible but many religions do this. |
Date: 7/13/2003 11:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 57105
Hm.. i've never heard of this organization! Kinda strange.. -fantasy/reality  |
Date: 7/14/2003 8:29:00 AM
From Authorid: 31673
FB and King Caspian - the book of Revelations says not to add or take away from the prophecy in the book of Revelations, not the Bible as a whole. In the context you put it in, the whole Bible is corrupt because the Book of Revelations was written before some of the other New Testament books. Using your context, that means, then, that the Bible has been added to and is, therefore, corrupt. We have to be careful to keep scriptures in their proper context.  |
Date: 7/15/2003 11:56:00 AM
From Authorid: 36079
This is why I prefer to go to non denominational churches, where its not about doctrine or tradition but about the word of God.  |
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Date: 7/15/2003 1:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Melodious, We are warned not to add to nor take away from the gospel of Christ in Revelations, but this is not the only passage found which states the same..In Gal 1:6-8 Paul says "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel, Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would *pervert* the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. The word 'pervert' in verse 7 means to change. So what Paul is saying is " but there be some that trouble you, and would CHANGE the gospel of Christ." Verse 8 says " If any man preach ANY OTHER gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." So..If any parts of God's Word has been changed, added to or taken away from, then it is not the Word of God. |
Date: 7/15/2003 1:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 53284
I think that there are a number of paths to god. I don't think that he endorses one and only one earthly religion. Just my opinion. BUT that seems to be mans way of getting people to join and stay in one particular religion.  |
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Date: 7/16/2003 11:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 31673
Rusure, the warning in Revelations clearly refers to "this book of prophecy." It's talking about the Book of Revelations. Not the gospel of Christ, not the Bible as a whole. Ask any Bible scholar, of any religious background, and he/she will tell you the same. People always seem to change it's meaning. When they do so, they make the Bible corrupt. There is enough negativity towards the Bible and it's authenticity as the word of God. If we take scriptures out of context, we run the risk of opening the door for more negativity. I was merely pointing out that the context in which FB and KC used that verse makes the whole Bible corrupt and both of them as well as you and I know that that is not the case. As for your Galatians verses. Yes, it says that. I guess where we differ is in our interpretation of what is meant by "other gospel." To me, it's clear that Paul is warning about Gospels that teach of salvation through means other than Jesus Christ. To you, he is talking of the Mormon Church. Whatever. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. That doesn't change the fact that the Revelations verse is being misused. |
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Date: 7/16/2003 1:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 3125
Melodious, Now I see what you were saying. I did misunderstand the point you were trying to make as to the book of Revelation. As for the passages in Galatians and other scriptures, I still think it is clear that Paul is saying that God gave us HIS WORD and no man made doctrine should be preached. If ANY OTHER doctrine other than that which Christ and His apostles is preached, then the doctrine is not of God. The Bible is clear about this. I don't care who teaches other doctrines, whether it be Catholics, JW's, Mormons, or whoever..If they have any other doctrine, their doctrine is not of God. Teaching other doctrines will naturally cause divisions and denominationalism. If a thousand people teach other doctrines I will still follow the ONE doctrine and that is the ONE and ONLY doctrine of Christ. It is up to us to let go of manmade doctrines and to follow what God has given unto us. It is not the hard to understand passages that causes divisions. It is the ones that are easily understood that causes denominationalism. If we would understand nothing else, we could see that denominationalism is taught against in just this one passage of God's Word..In 1 Cor 1:10 Paul says "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye ALL speak the same thing, and that there be NO divisions (Greek word:schisms) among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. How is it possible that over 1300 divisions all speak the same thing and have no divisions? How is it possible that these over 1300 denominations be PERFECTLY joined together in the same mind and all teaching the same things? The only solution would be is if all would let go of their man made teachings and for ALL to follow only the Word which Christ teaches. |
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Date: 7/19/2003 10:20:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 13952
From adam through abraham, moses,and the entry of the Israelites into the promised land for some 350 years they lived without a centralized government. Even when they clamored for a King, it was not out of anything that was GODLY or "theocratic", it was for the want to be like the nations around them. The bible says that GOD spoke through prophets in pre-christian times and through his SON in the Christian era. We all render an account for himself to GOD...Romans 14:12. There is no single exhortation in the bible for GODS servants to identify or or exhibit loyality,faithfulness or obedience to an organization. Thanks to every one who commented....... |
Date: 9/26/2003 1:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 55536
It is my understanding the Jesus was "The Way" not any particular religion. For those who follow the Christian faith Jesus is the one to follow not a set of rules laid down by any particular religion. No organization or church is needed beyond that. Looking at the scriptures that say not to add or take away from the Word of God. The JWs seem to set themselves up in the place of Christ stating that unless someone belongs to their Watchtower Society there is no salvation. THAT is 'adding" to the Word of God. One path = Christ. This isn't hard. Or complcated.  |
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Date: 9/26/2003 2:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 55536
AquaRose My mother refuses to talk to me because I no longer am a JW. This is one of their basic teaching "to keep the congregation clean". Anone who even speaks to a person who has been thrown out for some indiscretion - including things like smoking, accepting a blood transfusion, or talking about doubts they have risks being thrown out and shunned themselves. They take this VERY seriously. My mother has refused to come to my daughter's wedding because I would be there and she was not allowed to talk to me. |
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Date: 9/26/2003 2:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 55536
The link included here is my perspective on the JWs and whether they are a cult --- http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm269718.html |
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Date: 10/1/2003 9:20:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 13952
Lee...it is indeed sad when family, friends turn their backs on you for whatever reason...I have found that some understand that Christ-like love should still be extended and that shunning to the point of acting as though you dont exist is wrong....but the majority shun because they fear reprecussions from the organization. I guess that I should not be surprised at the lack of love... but for some reason I am always amazed.... |
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