|
|
|
|
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
| ||||||||||||||||
Date: 7/11/2003 8:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 24845
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with being gay. What someone does behind closed doors is their business. I don't believe it's right however in God's eyes. He created men and women for the sole purpose of companionship and procreation. Of course this is MY  |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 8:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 24845
Opinion. Sorry I hit the return key. LOL. |
Date: 7/11/2003 8:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 49101
All Men are Created Equal... Unless you have an alternate lifestyle. Would that be an alteration for the constituion?  |
Date: 7/11/2003 8:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 16705
i believe in GOD and always will. who you fall in love with is your business whether it be straight or gay. it doesn't bother me if they let the same sex marry. i would rather have a same sex married couple in my house as long as they show respect then i would have what people call normal married couple. at 54 years old i have realized that if people would keep their noses out of other peoples business this would be a better world. what right do we have to judge people on who they fall in love with? we don't. i think you should marry whomever you want to and don't get me wrong i'm not gay but i have gay friends and i have fun with them as i do straight people. accept people for the way they treat you and not by who they choose to be with. Hamb918  |
Date: 7/11/2003 8:59:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
I did not say that I had a problem with gay people I do NOT.  |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Contrary to popular belief, this country was not founded on the Bible or it's scripture. In God We Trust was not on our first money. Congress passed a law on April 22, 1864 authorizing the mint to place those words on coinage, after the Secretary of the Treasury recieved numerous letters from devout worshippers in the Union states. Under God was not in the pledge of allegiance until the 1950s. The allowing of gay marriages goes far beyond what "happens behind closed doors". It has legal implications as well as health and welfare implications. At present, a gay couple can be together for 40 years, but if one goes in the hospital, the other has little say in their care if the natural family steps in. Even a will is contestable by family members, and the a gay prtner can be left with little or nothing from a long term relationship. When people start talking against gay marriages, the first thing that comes up is their belief in the Bible. Well, I know a lot of gays that believe in the Bible also, so that arguement doesn't quite hold water. Marriage is a matter of civil law, and our civil laws are not based on religion, but is what is best for society. Not just part of society, or that part that believes in the Bible, but on society as a whole. The recent Supreme Court ruling has opened the door for gays to finally recieve equeal treatment under civil law. It is far past time in coming. I agree wholeheartedly with gays being able to marry, or to at least have state recognized legal unions. It is amazing that many people today have forgotten that it was just 40-50 years ago that another group of people had to fight for equeal treatment under the law. The arguements used against blacks during the Civil Rights Struggle are the same arguements I hear today against gays and lesbians. The arguements did not fly then, and they do not fly today.  |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I too dont mean to offend anyone but as far as I'm concerned, God made Adam and Eve not adam and steve. This is against everything God is for. It really upsets me that there are now churches run by gay people. God says that this is an abomination unto Him. Sure there are lots of people that are for the gay movement and that is good and fine, BUT God says repent of this thing so why they start a church is beyond me, dont they believe what God has said, or are they just doing it to slap HIM in the face. If I made people mad Im sorry, but the God that I believe in, doesnt believe in man marrying man or woman doing it either.  |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Let me explain, I have nothing against GAY people, I know some, I have some that I'm friends with. YES I've told them what God says about this, but they dont wish to hear it. I still love them simply because they are good people. I'm sorry I wont see them in heaven , unless they ask God to forgive them but I will love them for the people they are while I'm on this earth. |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:11:00 PM
From Authorid: 24924
How will it "change" the Constitution? You say you "have nothing against gay people"? YES, you sure do, when you don't want and are against them wishing to marry. What is it that you fear since they will be "behind closed doors"? The goverment is NOT "based a lot on the Bible and scriptures" no matter how much your church and leaders or anyone else has told you. This was the same lies that I was taught all those many years, but I now know how I was lied to about this as well as the whole of christianity. The "Under God" was sneaked into the pledge back in the 50's when everyone was too engrossed in the communist scare; it was CHANGED from the original which was "One nation, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for ALL". Talk about someone changing the Constitution, dearie! You think the "end of God in goverment would be the beginning of chaos"!???? Goooooood grief...There is absolutely NO basis; none, for such a belief. It is the hysteria; the mindset of ignorance; totally absurd. Unbelievable. This is the year 2003....not the Middle Ages.  |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I'm fixing on going to bed warrior spirit but I didsagree, this county was founded on christian principals. There is more than enough proof of that. BUT I'm going to bed so we will have to debate this tomorrow. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:13:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
Thank you Firstborn. I feel that this law changing will create a lot of heartache and evil as well as people trying to change the constitution, once that happens the end will be here very soon. What a blessed day that will be. Praise God. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Since I first came to USM, I have time and again watched people bash and downright trample gays and lesbians. Most of those who do so call themselves Christians. There is nothing Christian about denying another their basic human rights, or therir rights to the pursuit of happiness. Firstborn, you can say what you wish, but this country was not founded on the Bible. This country began because people were tired of all the crap they had to put up with from England, including religous persecution. I CHALLENGE ANYONE TO SHOW ME WHERE ALLOWING GAY MARRIAGES WILL CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION!! As a member of the LGBT community, I, along with other members, have faced persecution, harassment, berating, threatened beatings, and even had to face the possibility of death. Is this right? I don't think so. At one time, I was a "born again Christian". Then a day came when I woke up to a new light, and the truth began to come to me. There are truths in the Bible, that I will agree with. There are also a lot of fallacies and contradictions. Man far predates the Bible. There is proof of that out there, yet many refuse to see it. Read these words "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." It does not say "We the religous people", or "We the Bible believing people", but plain and simple, "We the people of the United States". That means all people. Our Constitution has been ammended over the years to include all people of this country, including women and blacks. That Constitution includes gays and lesbians. I know that Constitution, because I fought for and denfended that document that I hold sacred for almost half my life. This is the 21st century, not the Middle Ages when the Crusades were the order of the day. It is time people got off their problems with gays and lesbians. Before you worry about the problems any of us in the LGBT community may have, you need first do something about your own problems, because we are defintiely doing something about ours. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Thinker says, :::"end of God in goverment would be the beginning of chaos"!???? YEs it will be, but ya know, this doesnt bother me, I say even so Jesus come. When the time of the end comes I'm ready, IF BY a very small chance that God isnt real, I HAVE lost nothing, I've lived a good life, nothing is lost, but to those that say God is not real, they will have lost big time. I guess only time and death will tell but I sure would NOT want to be on the end of the stick for those that dont believe in God or the LORD JESUS. But hey to each their own. BUT for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Good night ya'll. AND thinker, I dont care what ya think, as long as your in this world I do love you for WHOM you are, a caring person that helps their fellow man as much as you can. You do better than lots of so called christians that I know. |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
It's amazing to me that with divorce rates being at an all time high, and I'm not sure of the stats, but I know they are very, very high. I know that many children are being raised in single parent homes, sometimes each sibling has a different father. In my line of work, I see this every day. And yet, there are people who are committed enough to fight for the right to be married. That amazes me and brings thoughts of the past, when blacks were not allowed to drink at "white" water fountains, eat in "white establishments", or be joined in marriage. I have no "judgements" on love, commitment and marriage.  |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 15677
warrior well said |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Warrior Spirit, I am in tears and could feel every ounce of the frustration and pain that you have endured in your comments. It honestly takes a lot to awe me, and I am definately awed.  |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
warrior spirit I'm really tired tonight and yes I really am going to bed, but I want you to know that I dont hate gays or girls with girls, that is their choice but its NOT the choice for me and what kind of believer would I be if I said, hey its all good? To me that would be dumping every thing that I believe in. If one is going to have faith in something they should have faith all the way or not at all. I have faith in the Lord Jesus and what GOD tells me is right and wrong. I just cant go any other way. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
AS I stated before in my post " the real truth about firstborn. I have in my past done lots of things that I'm not proud of today. I'm not without doing wrong things. God knows I do lots of wrong things. |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 6860
I'm all for it.  |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
I think marriage is a sacred, religious ceremony meant for a man and a woman. If a gay couple wants to live together and be considered "a monogomous couple...so be it, I'm fine with that. Marriage though, is a religious event where you proclaim your love and committment before God. That's just the way I feel about it and I am in no way prejudiced against gay people.  |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
Warrior Spirit-I cannot possibly add anything to your comments. Thank you Dear Friend, again, you have shown yourself remarkable.  |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
IF my state, FLORIDA, recognizes same-sex marriages as legal-I will perform them for others. I believe Man should not dictate matters of the Heart, nor make private acts illegal. |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 61999
I say everyone do what they want. Because when God comes, he'll be sorting all this mess out... ~~The MightyDreamGyrl~~  |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 30229
I am a Christian and I love God with all my heart. But I do think that our ways of the Government is long over due for change. Not only with Life partners, but in other ways too. I am a single person, and If I die, then NO ONE will be able to draw my retirement... oh my kids will get the part that I put in, but simply because I am not married, then NO ONE gets to draw on me at all when I die, now how stupid is that? Everyone should have ANYONE they choose as their "PERSON" to draw from their retirement, their insurance and have the SAME benefits that husband and wife have... EVERYONE should be allowed to name a name of someone to get what they have instead of a SPOUSE only type business. I uphold marriage, but lets face it people... we humans have really slammed that institution into the ground, so being that as it may, then of course we should have someone in our lives to take over where we leave off, whether it be husband, wife, lover, child, neighbor. I have a friend right now, who is retired military, and unless he remarries soon, then NO ONE will benefit from his life time earnings. I know I am off kilter with this comment and that isnt exactly what the post is about, it is just a small extension of it... I have friends who are gay, and I do NOT ever judge them or their lifestyle... heck, they are more devoted to each other than my so called "MARRIED" friends are... ya know?  |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
* meant be joined in multi-racial marriage. With all the "wrong" things to worry about, I can't see why any Creator would waste time worrying about the love between two people. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
You Choose, actually your problem is completely with the fact that it is not a man and woman. Everything else you said is EXACTLY what these people are doing. Professing their love and commitment to one another before God if they choose. I professed my love and commitment to my husband before a judge at city hall. It makes your marriage absolutely no different than mine in the eyes of the law. Church doesn't HAVE everything to do with it. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:51:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
I am sorry Warrior Spirit if my beleifs hurt you, really I am. I am not out to hurt anyone contrary to my beleifs. We have a freedom to choose what we beleive just as God has given us a choice to follow Him or not. |
Date: 7/11/2003 9:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
It may say "In God We Trust" and "Under God" but it doesn't say "In the CHRISTIAN God we trust," "Under the CHRISTIAN God" or "In God We Trust, and the rest of you, well you're just screwed." Allowing gay marriages has no effect on me or my life, so why would I care. I'm not gonna pass judgement on another's lifestyle choice when it in no way has any affect on my life.  |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Mrs Mommie Nealy if what you say is true than God gave everyone the individual choice to follow him or not. According to Christianity God gave us each free will to choose for ourselves. THEY made their choice.....if the church doesn't accept that...FINE.....THAT is the church...the church and the law are two seperate things and should not interfere with each other and banning same sex marriages does just that. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
private acts LSG? how about the man/boy club where they believe that man and boy should be able to have sex together is a six year old boy says its ok? Is this too a private act that you condone? Will you allow your ten year old son to have sex with a man if your son says its ok? I mean it IS a PRIVATE ACT.????? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
Azairyia: No offense but this is my belief on this topic and NO ONE will ever change it. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
You Choose I didn't take offence, I don't think that I can say the same for you. I am not trying to change you...STOP trying to change them. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:57:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
* correction to my statement* even though our beleifs may differ I am not out to hurt anyone or deny their being, and beleifs. In case anyone misunderstood my last reply. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 9:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
YOUR right AZ church doesnt have anything to do with it but GOD DOES. AND HE says its a no no. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
God is church FB.....I don't have to go into a church to get married but my marriage is legal in the eyes of the law. They are asking for their legal right to marry in the eyes of the law NOT God's law. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
Just because society says something is now okay with our current times doesn't make it so. We get used to something and then all of the sudden we want to take it to the limit. Mankind always wants things to be the easy way(their way), and that's where we make all of our mistakes. We consistently bend God's rules to fit our desires. Because I am a Christian, I won't bend his rules... not even for myself if I was in this situation, believe it or not. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
AZ, Who am I trying to change? Gays? I never said that so please don't put words in my mouth. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
no AZ God is not church. As too many churches disagree on too many things. Man made doctrin. One church may believe in healing, one may not. One church may believe in laying on of hands to heal the sick and one may not. AND there are churches now today that believe that man can marry man and woman can marry woman, no church and God are not the same. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
You Choose, when you pursue things that go against allowing others their free right to life libery and the pursuit of happiness you are trying to change them. If you don't care that they are gay in the first place and don't have a desire to change them, having free and equal rights under the law that everyone else has, wouldn't be a problem. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:06:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
Amen You Choose and Deb. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
FB, you mentioned the man/boy group. Every LGBT group I am affiliated with has denied membership to anyone who is involved with that group. Their actions and desires are not condoned by the majority of the LGBT community. Even among us that some see as immoral we do have morals. |
Date: 7/11/2003 10:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
should the people who don't live by GOD have to be surrounded by a GOD goverment?? doesn't that touch on the freedom of religion issues?? i think that gays should be treated equal... and allowing a couple to marry is creating equality... do you think it's right that a life partner has no say when anything happens?? yet a family member who barely knows the person has all say?  |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
FB, you replied to my statement to You Choose about marriage only having to be legal in the eyes of the law, not in the eyes of God. Now generally when you get married before God/law because they are one in the same, you most often do that in a church. Therefore, church and law are NOT the same thing. For it to be legal in the eyes of the law gay people should not have to have the churches permission in order for it to become legal. Religion preference should not dictate law, YET it still does. Maybe this way will better explain what I meant by that comment. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
AZ, No human being EVER totally gets all their desired rights. Why? Because they are man-made and therefore impossible to ever totally satisfy. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
FB, that is a very ignorant statement. As the Mother of an 11-years old son, I have never, NEVER condoned sexuality, except between two consenting adults. HON, don't twist words, read what is written, o.k.? The MBLA that you mention have NOTHING-NOTHING to do with the Homosexual Community. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
marriage isn't just a religious thing.... marriage is the joining of two people in the eyes of the law... how would you like to be told that the person you have loved for year and years your not allowed to make a legal union?? how would you feel if your partner of 20 years past away and the home you shared together thier family fought for because your not a legal spouse?? how would you like to be turned away from the hospital when your partner is in a coma because your not of any "relation" to them?? where is the equality in that? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
Many people in our country will never be happy until God is totally removed from every aspect of our society. Then whose rights are being taken away? The tables turn... |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
I'm sure it's a BIG relief to many people in our country that they WILL get their way in the end. Ultimately, Christians and many denominations of religion will cease to exist. Everyone will frolick freely and do what ever they please. Rules and laws, what are those? Guidelines, Remember those things? No, not really. Where do you ever draw the line? The old saying, "you give an inch and then a mile is required." It's a terrible outlook on the future but unfortunately, we're on our way. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Warrior spirit just because you do not believe as I do does not mean that I find you immoral, we all chose what we do in life and tomorrow when Im thinking more clearly I will show you what I mean about he founding fathers, but I have all my info tucked away and do not wish to look for it tonight. I'm glad that ya'll are not involved with the men boy thing. I'm happy about that. But really JUST because one does not believe the way I do, does not in any way make me think or feel they are Immoral. So hon , please dont think that. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
Who's God-You Choose? Yours? The Catholic God? Buddah? The LDS God? No, not remove God, remove the limitations of a select few who attempt to dictate their own version of Morality on Others. And, it is a hypocritical thing too...for "all have fallen short", true? therefore who is worthy to dictate Morality? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 30229
I am a Christian, I believe in GOD 100%... I believe in MY GOD... makes NO difference to me what God anyone else chooses to believe in, but that is off the course of this post too.. so I will hush, lol |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
But You Choose God gave us all free will to choose our path. He hopes that we will choose him, but he did give us that free will. Therefore he gave them the choice.....THEY have made their choice...NOW we are going to move on to Man's law. Man's law says that you can obtain a legal marriage without marrying within a church or under a denomination. You can walk right into the City Hall and have the judge do it for you. If we were all born with free will than we are given the choice to follow God's law, or man's law. The choice is man's law and under that law I have the right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness just as much as the next guy. Man's law says that I don't have to have the churches permission in order to make my marriage legal in the eyes of man...WHICH by the way is what I am looking to do in the first place.....therefore since it is against God's law for me to marry another woman, God's law has no right to step in and say that I can't do this because it is not against Man's law. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
If marriage is a religous act, then why must one get a marriage lisence from the state? Because marriage is a civil act. That is the major poinr here. The church has no right to set the civil laws of any state. That has been tried before, and failed miserably. Remember Afghanistan? We aided others in removing a religous government, and setting up a civil government. There is a reason we have sepearation of church and state, and that is because all people do not believe the same, therefore to favor the religous beliefs of one group over the beliefs of another in government would be to discriminate against the other group. As I said, whether it is called marriage, or civil unions, it should be recognized, if nothing else so that the coupld can have the same legal rights that any other couple may have. In fact, in many states, common law marriages are still recognized, even though a couple never legally married. To some, that may be living in sin, yet the state recognizes that the two people are married. Therefore, that makes marriage not a religous act. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:20:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
These beleifs that we have may differ, I cannot change God's plan. His wrath will come, sooner than some may beleive. I pray for all mankind, I do. We are all free to choose which path we as human beings in life, He gave us that choice. The rest is up to us. BLESSINGS, |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
it isn't right to choose another god over another.... where is hte freedom in religion in that?? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
just becuase you don't agree with this law honestly how doesn't it effect you?? if a gay couple can marry how is that hurting you as a person even if you don't "believe" it's right... i don't see how it hurts you |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
You Choose how are your rights going to be violated if God is removed from society? Everyone else has thrived for thousands of years without their God plastered all over the public and have gone to their death with their undying devotion to their faith. Where does one come off thinking that in order to have any rights that your rights should supercede anothers just so long as you get yours? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Thanks you, WS for explaining what I was trying to express a heck of lot better...LOL |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Gee Fb, that was mighty Christian-like talk...LOL |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
AZ anyone can be married anywhere. Just because one gets married does not mean it has to be a church. Being married and being married in the eyes of God is one thing, the two are not the same. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
You Choose, this is for you. It was written long ago by an Indian, and says a lot about rules and laws. "Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men, we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents. Without a prison, there can be no delinquents. We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves. When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket, he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift. We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property. We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being was not determined by his wealth. We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians, therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another. We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society." "Lame Deer" |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
Private Acts are Private acts for Adults, FB, Good Lord, did I REALLY need to explain that to you, HON? *I am thinking you need to stop trying to fight with me & maybe stick to the topics at hand, o.k.?* ;) I doubt any USM'ers would think I condone Pedophilia with children, except my son. As I said, Ignorant statemnt. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Well Gee didn't I JUST get done saying that? THEY are not the same, therefore there should be no problem with enacting the permission for same sex marriages to be legal. If the church doesn't want to marry them...FINE...they aren't asking the church to change their views about them and allow them to break God's law against it. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
AZ, The difference is that your focus is on Man's Law's and desired ones. Mine is on God's Laws. Either way the pendulum swings on this issue, someone's beliefs are offended or affected. I could care less about many of man's laws... why? Because I'm a Christian and I put God's laws before mans. I don't care if the guys in the house next to me are a gay couple, there's their business. I don't care what they do in the privacy of their home either. I AM however, entitled to my belief and view on this issue which is and will ALwAYS remain the same... I don't approve of same sex marriages. This is because in my knowledge and feelings of what is morally acceptable, and by God's Laws... this is not. You and I will probably never agree on this issue because our focus is not the same. That is why I don't desire to change anyone but I will always stand by my own beliefs and voice them. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
"AZ anyone can be married anywhere"-incorrect, I cannot legally marry two Homosexuals in my state & have it recognized as a legal document. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:34:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
If and when the constitution is changed again which I forsee happening, I beleive that it will be the beginning of His wrath. I have NO FEAR in that. It saddens my heart to know that many people I love and most of humanity will suffer such things. That is why it MATTERS to me. I love all people, my enemies and those for which I do not know on a personal level. That is just my being and wht the Lord has blessed me with. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Mommie Nealy, according to Hopi Prophecies, it is not God's wrath that we will feel, but man's own wrath. I believe deeply in those prophecies, because many of them have come to pass, especially in the past 100 years. The third great shaking of the Earth is what we will next feel, and it will be at man's own hand. It will also mean the destruction of life as we know it, and the beginning of the 5th world. That is all part of another post though, and not a subject I care to debate. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
I will repeat this one more time. "I CHALLENGE ANYONE TO SHOW ME WHERE ALLOWING GAY MARRIAGES WILL CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION!!" You cannot change something that is not there. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
You Choose, you don't care if they are living in next door, you don't care what they do in the privacy of their home, but you don't condone them marrying? Now you condone and "look" the other way on all of that but you can't look the other way about marriage. Do you somehow think that if they are allowed to marry that they will suddenly be bringing into public view something that they haven't already done, such as something that should be done in the privacy of their own home? They already walk freely down the street holding hands and kissing each other. They already proclaim to be what they are, so what is this possibly going to change that you can't condone it? Is it their right to have medical benefits so they can seek treatment when they get sick? Or how about the ability to stake claim in an estate that they spent their whole lives building together? Or maybe it's the kids that they may have and raise togethere as a family until one of them dies and the family comes in robs the child of their second parent? What exactly is it that you cannot condone that doesn't already happen minus a piece of paper? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
LSG, thanks for the correction..I apologize for assuming that it would be taken as any male and female. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
AZ get off the peck, as most humans today talk in slang, the point is that one cant say well its ok as they consent to it, as the men boy club says that IF THE CHILD concsent that its a done deal. LSG they dont think that private acts are JUST for adults, this is the topic at hand. IF one gives an inch to this type of thing then another inch will be given to the man boy thing. YOU can call it an ignornant statement if you wish, but to them its a private act. Your wrong AZ a lot of them WILL ask for the churches permission remember what I said about some churches being ran by the gay community? Why would they bother if they dont want the churches approval?? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
Az, it is kind of funny, but I was denied a church wedding once because me and my soon to be at that time had been living in sin, according to the church. Even though we were living in sin, they never hesitated to take our tithes. Kind of made me wonder if the worshipped God or money. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
ther eare very few places where a single sex couple can be legally married...if i have it right(correct me if i'm wrong) only 2 countries in the WHOLE WORLD.....that is FAR from everywhere |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 15677
i would have to say its the money |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
WS, my sister and her now ex-husband were living together at the time when both she and I converted to Roman Catholic. She intended to get married in the Catholic church and in order to do so they had to pack up and move back in home with their parents because the priest refused to marry them if they were living together. She packed up and came back home to live with me and my parents and he went home to live with his parents. I know all about that rule....LOL |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm348103.html |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
WS.... Ah, thanks but I'm not sure how that pertains to me. AZ, my opinion is just that... mine and if I wasn't able to voice it, then someone would be trying to change me just as I'm supposedly, trying to change others. As far as my rights being violated by the removal of God... most definitely they would be. How does having God on money or anything else pose such a threat to non-believers in the first place? It's a vicious cycle.... having God in our society causes such a stir... even though it's been around longer then all of us have. I don't know of anyone dying from seeing "In God we trust on our money" but people act as if they will. If they removed it... I would then act that way. No one is ever happy because we do have "free-will" and impose it on each other every day. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Gee Firstborn, maybe because they don't believe that GOD hates them for the life they lead. Besides that fact, if the Gay church turned around tomorrow and said "Hey come here and we will marry you!" It means NOTHING in the eyes of the law. Just like if you walk into one of your churches and get married. If you don't have a marriage license it means NOTHING in the eyes of the law. It's about changing the law, the legal law...you know that set of laws that we all must follow even if we think that when we die we turn into mushrooms? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 12341
Well said Asairyia! I live and work in a very cultural and diverse area. I personally know and have many friends of different races and cultures. Some have totally different beliefs, and coming from different countries and being of different cultures, I rarely have a difference of opinion. Only the one time, where my grandchild was told "he would burn in fire" for being bad, but that could have come from Christian religion. I do not and will not believe that children need to be taught THAT, let them develop their own values and beliefs. Aside from that though, I will say this, my neighbors are Muslim, we do fine, they are decent moral people, they do not ask me to worship with them, believe what they believe, nor dress like them. And I don't, and we have a great relationship, our kids play with each, visit each other's homes. We look out for them and they do for us. We accept each other and respect each other. On the other hand, there is another family who (also Muslim) that teach their children totally unacceptable standards to living in a diverse neighborhood. Their faith, their thoughts on the place of women in the world and even how they treat their own male and female children has almost created a hostile environment for them. I have chosen to remain where I am because I love my neighborhood, I care about my neighbors, and the majority choose to reside here based on the very diversity and different cultures that reside. One family has not and will not change the what the majority of us strive for. To maintain a place where our children are welcome, and recognized as being friends, Regardless of what color, culture, political beliefs or choice of partners. Who should constitute how other believe and live and what right do they have? WS, you made excellent comments, I agree with what you said. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
You Choose, that was in repsonse to your comments concerning rules and laws, and how we are trying to throw them away. Nothing could be further from the truth. All the LGBT wants is to be treated as equeals, without persecution from the religous right, which is where most, if not all, the persecution we face stems from. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
I do not know the whole constitution WS. I just know that it is in there, or am ammendment will be passed to change the marriage clause in the constitution and federal law. I saw this on nogaymarriage.com. I do not know where it is exactly WS, sorry!! |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 53052
putting god/religion aside for a moment... a man and a woman only knowing eachother a week can turn around and get married in the eyes of the law(heck it could be a day!! and yes it happens often!!) yet a single sex couple(gay or lesbian) have been together in a VERY commited relationship for 20 years doesn't have the same rights?? what makes the straight couples relationship more valid then the single sexed(gay/lesbian) relationship?? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
You Choose would you be tooting the same horn if that said In Satan We Trust? I am sorry but you point the finger and say that with the way people react to seeing that on their money that it was going to kill them, but in the same token you act as though you can't survive without it on there and find that quite amusing..LOL |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
Mt:22:36: Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Mt:22:37: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Mt:22:38: This is the first and great commandment. Mt:22:39: And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Mt:22:40: On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. AZ there is a differnce between the law of God and the laws of man. God said there would come a day when man would call what is good evil and what is evil good. Judge for yourself. As far as I'm concerned if the law of man allows same sex marriage they are calling what is evil good. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 10:59:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
WS: NO offense but who are YOU to say that what I SAID "couldn't be further from the truth?" That's purely your own opinion and not mine. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
AZ, do you know what sarcasm is? |
Date: 7/11/2003 11:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 30051
I agree with you 100%.  |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:03:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
It's amazing how I've attacked no one when giving my OPINIONS but continue to be questioned for them and made to feel as if I'm wrong. Whose trying to change who here? My belief on this issue stands and that is my right in God's land and mans. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Firstborn...MAN'S law and GOD's law are TWO seperate issues and SHOULD NOT be combined into one. I believe that is the 5th or 6th time I have said that..LOL |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I'm really going to bed now ,, goodnight one and all. Anything that is asked of me, I will deal with tomorrow. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 30051
My comment was for the author. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:12:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
LOL @ Coryann, I was wondering about that. I hope to see you in Oregon, has Rose mentioned that to you yet?? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
You Choose, no one has attacked you and no one has stated that you are wrong for your opinions or feelings on the matter. If you are feeling that you are wrong then maybe you need to sit back and evaluate why that is. Also this statement here: "My belief on this issue stands and that is my right in God's land and mans." According to God, I have the free will to choose it is my right given to me by the very God you speak of. Man's law grants me equal rights and protection under it. It is and should be my right to choose under both as I have been given birth rights under both, to marry whomever I choose to marry regardless of their gender. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:15:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
You Choose, of course I know what sarcasm is, but you can't be sarcastic about something you claim you would do IF something happened, when you already do what you claim you would do. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
HUH????? Okay... |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 47296
You Choose, I can say it because I know the true agenda of the LGBT community, while you do not. I am a member of that community. Mommie Nealy, there is nothing in the Constitution concerning marriage. I have the entire Constitution up at this moment in another window. In fact, if you will read the post LSG just put up, you will see that to deny gay marriages is in fact unconstitutional. I do know the Constitution, and have known it since my teen years. It was part of a book I read years ago called Dynamic Freedoms, which discusses all our freedom documents. It is obvious that this debate will go nowhere. Regardless, there will always be people who feel their belief holds credence over other people's lives. They will forever attempt to discriminate and deny other's their rights. Continue to do so if you feel you must, and enjoy it while you can, because the day is fast coming when you can no longer hold your beliefs over other people. The LGBT is fighting everyday in courts all over this country for their basic rights, We are also winning in those same courts. While you are busy praying for things to work your way, I will be busy, along with many like me, writing letters to our government representives. While you are sitting in church with your friends that think the same way you do, I, along with many like me, will be busy lobbying those same representives for changes. While you sign petitions to try and stop us, we will be marching and gathering in the streets and making our voice heard. We just won a major decision in the highest court in this land. We will win more. It is like your own Jerry Falwell said on national television, Why make laws you cannot enforce. Why deny one group their rights because you feel your religous rights are more important. If nothing else, this post has shown me who my friends are in the fight for justice and equality. Peace be to you. |
Date: 7/11/2003 11:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 29532
I am totally against any Staye trying to make gay marriages illegal. Who are they to interviein in peoples lives like this!?!?!?! If I someday end up divorced, that's it, I will never be with a man again. My choise. My husband is the only man in my life, and it will forever be that way. So if I choose to marry someone I love, woman or not, no one but immediate family can come between that and that is just how it should be.  |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 30229
Hello Gail, how are you doing tonight? ME? Oh I am cool... this is a good debate huh? Yep, it sure is... Glad LSR reminded me today that Tolerance had no place in the debate section... hehheh... Oh well, guess I better log off, I am now talking to myself... boy, surgery, pain killers, and debates do NOT go together... Nite Gail.. Nite Gail.. haha |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 30051
Hey AZ I think you lost us on that last comment. LOL! |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:21:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
This is getting down right scary. I feel like I've entered the twilight zone. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 29532
LSG, makes me wonder why you and I have not totally hit it off sooner. You amaze me woman. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 29532
Azairyia, OMG we agree on something???? Holy cow, write it down, it's a world record! LOL :P |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 30051
LMAO @ Gail:) Nighty night:) |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 30229
OH MY, CoryAnn noticed I am talking to myself and saved me! hehe.. nite nite to you too coryann :) |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:25:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
You Choose, you are diving here, only because you didn't get anyone to cave. No one was rude, no one insulted your beliefs and certaintly no one told you that your God or his laws were wrong. No one even went into discussing how a loving God could and blah, blah, blah. The only thing that has been discussed is the difference between religious law and the laws of the land here. If there were more people here that were opposed to this I have doubts that you would be feeling the same way right now. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 29532
LOL@Gail :P |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:26:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
I NEVER said that my beliefs are more credited than yours nor put you down for your character or the rights you believe in. Continue your fight WS. Please do, that is your right just as I beleive in mine. Please do not make the perception that I have persecuted anyone for their beleifs as I have not. You do not consider me your friend, I am sorry. People do not agree with one another, it happens all the time. Because we have different veiws and belefs we cannot be freinds in your eyes, I am sorry. I have never once been unkind to you or the gay community, nor will I ever. We are all different and that is o.k. We all have choices. I have made mine and will stand by my beleifs just as you will yours. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:28:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
LOL..don't know Pink Bunny ;) Thanks for the compliment..... |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
*waves* 'night Gail!!!! |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
AZ.... no one is trying to change anyone here except you. That's the reality. You are dominating this debate and you aren't leaving room for real discussion. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
A shining light.... Thank you Mrs.Mommie, very well said as a general comment regarding this discussion. I couldn't have said it better! :) |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:33:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
One more thing AZ.... reverse psychology doesn't work on me. Whether or not you're intentionally going there. I don't feel bad about the way I feel... I usually am in the minority and very proud of that. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:38:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
Minority, yes. That we are You choose. LOL @ You choose. |
Date: 7/11/2003 11:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 51744
Ok this may have been covered but I grew up in a gay and lesbian church, and in that same passage that says that god does not "accept" gays and lesbians they they are sinners...well what is the one thing that we re tought <sp> going up "God forgives all sins if you repent" Repent=(to me) go to church and cofess that you have sined. So god forgives you right or am i wrong??  |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
:) Yes, Mommie, it's a cold place to be at times... huh? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:40:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
You Choose, how am I trying to change you anymore than you are trying to change me. You say blue I say black. I am dominating the debate? Since when is one not free to continue on a debate just because you can't seem to get your logic to fit the equation of the discussion here? So please do tell me or the rest of us WHAT the REAL discussion is here and oh one more thing.....am I allowed to respond or would I be trying to change you or would that be considered dominating the debate? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:41:00 PM
From Authorid: 29532
*Grins like a big hearty fat man after a GIGANTIC meal* |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
That's an interesting subject you just posed. The only thing about repentence is that it doesn't give a person a free ticket to sin. In my opinion repentence is an opportunity to be forgive for past sins if one intends to change their ways. Otherwise, we're just "using God's grace and forgiveness and essentially him, in the end." Of course, that's only my opinion on that subject. :) |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:43:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
You Choose, I don't have to try anything along the reverse psychology it is quite apparent that you would like to blame your insecurity for how you feel in regards to this debate on everyone else. I simply suggested you ask yourself why you feel like that. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:45:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
AZ... I'll just agree to disagree with you dear. Basically, what you said is what I said in a different way so where are we going with this? No where. Agreeing to disagree that's where we should be at I think. :) |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:45:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
Yes he does forgive your sins. Some do beleive that it is not a sin. ( I am sure that is the case here and in this world ) No one is perfect. Continuing to defile HIS word is not right in the Lord's eyes. Those are my beleifs. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
AZ.... I don't need to ask myself anything but apparently you feel the need to... OVER and OVER again. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
Well You Choose it's about time you threw in the towel and learned that you can't argue with me and win..LOL....DISCLAIMER: It's a joke..:D |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
You Choose, no more than you feel the need to state over and over about how wrong you have been made to feel, how much you were attacked, and how persecuting this post has been for you. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:48:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
LOL You choose. I am praying for our world and all the people in it, in hopes that one day they will be saved before it is too late........ |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:50:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
AZ... that's okay, apparently we're more alike then we want to admit... we're both a bit head-strong! :) We girls gotta' be though don't we? At least everyone here seems to care about this issue and that in itself means something. Mommie knew she opened a can a worms with this one. It is such a controversial issue. |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:51:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
Why can't we love one another and respect each other for our differences? HUH??? WHY??? |
Date: 7/11/2003 11:52:00 PM
From Authorid: 53900
well here is my two cents...I dont really care either way. The way I look at it is IF and that is a big if it truly is against God isnt it up to him to judge? Doesnt it say in teh bible judge not lest ye be judged? And if it is up to him to judge shouldnt it be ok for them (gay and lesbians) to do what they want(within reason) on Earth? I mean afterall if it is a sin and against God is he going to send you to hell by for two other people's sins? Is it really going to hurt you personally if two guys have the same rights as you or I do when we get married? Honestly it does not bother me if they get married.  |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
A can of worms indeed. I beleive it needed to be opened though. I brought up a subjects they said should never be discussed reigion and politics. LOL :) |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
MMN, who is not respecting each other for the difference of opinion? |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 27046
That's right, You Choose and what fun would a controversial issue be if there were no controversy and everyone agreed? LOL |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
It's been fun chatting with EVERYONE, despite all of our differing views. Have a great nite ALL!! This was a great post Mommie that did need to be written. :) |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:56:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
I have covered that one already Jessica, in one of my replies. I do not know if you went through them ALL. There is a lot to read. LOL :) |
|
Date: 7/11/2003 11:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
Very true AZ, very true. See everyone later. :) |
|
Date: 7/12/2003
From Authorid: 53900
Actually no I did not read the replies before posting...however that is my opinion on it...pretty much I think it is the same as 30-40 years ago when interracial couples were not permitted. It is going to happen eventually and they are not telling me or you or anyone else who is not gay to do it so why should we be so concerned over it? Why not let them live their life and we live ours... |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 12:07:00 AM
From Authorid: 51744
MMN, I belive what you said to me whole heartedly, here is the scripture that I was told to read about it Levitucus 19 1-32...that is what i was told to read when i questioned it. when I get into this debate with people I aske them "why would someone choose to be a outkast in society?" think bout it |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 12:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 30051
I have a comment to the Giggler,it has nothing to do with this debate but You said you grew up in gay church and that if you repent god will forgive you right? Do you know what it means to repent? It does not mean you just say "sorry God". And that be the end to repent means to confess what you are doing is wrong. To ask for fogivness AND to change your behaivor:) Just thought I'd throw that in:) |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 12:09:00 AM
From Authorid: 15070
Pat Robertson talked about the United States being punished by God for its sinful ways in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks. Now, he's been diagnosed with prostate cancer. Maybe God does punish the sinful? *ohhh...think about it* |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 12:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 30051
In that case we would all be punished. |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 12:13:00 AM
From Authorid: 34487
Sorry but I'm back. That comment about Pat Robertson's diagnosis was totally uncalled for and has nothing to do with this subject in my opinion. |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 12:17:00 AM
From Authorid: 15070
I repeat-I AM A CANCER SURVIVOR (5 YEARS) MY BELOVED MOTHER DIED 5/15/99 OF CANCER. CANCER IS NEVER FUNNY-I WAS POINTING OUT THE IRONY. No, You Choose, stop turning the tables here. YOU are the one on the "hot seat", not me. |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 12:25:00 AM
From Authorid: 34487
If anything LSG.... you should be compassionate about his diagnosis, not feel that you can use him as some ploy to make a point. All you did was add something offensive and off-the-subject to this post. Anyway, I'm truly signing off here. It's just getting too wild for me I guess. Once again and for the last time.... Good night everyone. :) |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 12:31:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
I think it will calm down by later today, unless many that read this will feel the desire to let there voices be heard. It is 2:30 am here. I am out for tonight. I will pray for ALL of you and do not judge no one for their beleifs. The Lord is the one and only who can TRULY judge anyone. Goodnight. |
Date: 7/12/2003 2:07:00 AM
From Authorid: 62118
FirstBorn you might want to do some research, pedophilia is different to homosexuality. If you believe men who do it with boys are homosexuals and that its wrong, are women who do it with boys or men who do it with girls are straight and its ok? Theres nothing evil with homosexuality. I'm glad people are no longer using religion or God to dictate law. Law should be about things that are right and wrong, not what the Bible/God fools you into believeing.  |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 4:17:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
Thanks, #62118. That comment: "Same sex marriage is evil" is no different than the opinions and popular viewpoint of the religious with regards to atheists. We are talked about, thought of, as though we are immoral and evil. Members of my own family refer to me as "evil" or Satan!!! AND....furthermore, those same people are always talking about "LOVE", and "tolerance" and "I just want peace" "why can't we all just get along"!! CAN'T YOU NOT SEE that WE SEE and understand, that what you MEAN by those statements is: "I love you ONLY if you are a Christian; I'll accept your lifestyle ONLY if it is MY way; MY beliefs; and if you are not one of us, then your against us, and you are evil and doing satan's bidding"???????????? THAT is the bottom line; that IS what you all are REALLY saying here, MMN, You Choose, Firstborn??? |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 5:45:00 AM
From Authorid: 24924
For those who are making the statement: "I'm for following God's laws, not man's", and want everyone to believe that the Bible is God's laws, and that it is such bulwark of morality, without which our country is doomed, right? The Bible clearly shows OTHERWISE! History is filled with horrendous things done to humanity by those who truly BELIEVED that they were following God's laws as written in the Bible!! Examples: The centuries-long practice of burning our forebears at the stake was inspired directly by words alleged to have been those of Jesus: "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned" John 15:6 ////////// "If a man meets a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her...He must marry the girl..He can never divorce her as long as he lives" Deut 22:28-29 "Have you allowed all women to live? He (Moses) asked them. Now, kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man" Numbers 31:1-18 ; and there are so many examples of scriptures condoning/sanctioning of discrimination and degradations of women, children, and slavery......and this is supposed to be the LAW of the Land?? OUR United States of America!!?? Look....think about THIS hypothetical....IF "God's law" were THE laws of the land: Suppose a Christian defendant is charged with a crime, and he states that He saw a vision, and God spoke to him, and directly told him to destroy an abortion clinic which resulted in death to a doctor performing abortions....and a council of religious leaders gather to discern whether in fact this man/woman DID, in fact, receive such a direct message from God....Then, would these religious leaders not have the authority to provide the Christian defendant with immunity from prosecution?? DOES THIS MAKE SENSE to you, You Choose? How does one determine that anyone received a "message from God" or not....without issuing God a supoena? |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 5:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 47296
The question was asked; "Why can't we love one another and respect each other for our differences?". Where is the love and respect when a group of people are told by another group that what they are doing is evil and wrong, and should not be condoned in this country. Where is the love and respect when they are told they should not have the same rights and privileges as another group of people in this country? Where is the love and respect when they are told they are defiling this country? Where is the love and respect when a judge in a Southern state sits there and says they should be incarcerated or even killed? That is love and respect with terms, those terms being "respect our veiw and do not ask for the same priveleges that we enjoy". Who is going to hurt if gays are allowed to marry? No one. The union is between them, not between them and someone here. They are not asking you to join them in marriage, only recognize their right to have a civil union that will extend to them the same rights they would have if their partner were of teh opposite sex. This is not about a book that some wish to live by, but about two people who do love and care for each other. It is not about how some people believe, but about how two people feel for each other. Most gays have the utmost respect for the religous beliefs of others, and do not wish to change their way of thinking or believing. Those people though will turn around and say "We love you, but because of your actions, which to us are wrong, we do not want you to have this right or this privelege." I say it is time for people to leave the gays and lesbians alone, and let them live a full and happy life. They are not hurting you or anyone else. If what they are doing is judged wrong by a higher power, then that is between them and that power, not for anyone here on Earth to decide. |
Date: 7/12/2003 6:16:00 AM
From Authorid: 15394
what are people so afraid of when it comes to gay marriage?? Why is it so important to impose morality on other people?  |
Date: 7/12/2003 6:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 32070
I'm for it.......  |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 7:40:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
No Thinker that is not what I am saying at all. WS I never said such things that you were evil or wrong for your beliefs or your way of life. I have merely stated how I feel and veiw this. That is all, period as I have stated in my post, those are my veiws and beleifs on this matter. |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 7:51:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 61977
I am glad that you came by Private Lady and voiced your veiw on this matter. Have not seen you in awhile. |
Date: 7/12/2003 10:26:00 AM
From Authorid: 47166
Ok, first of all: I know that I'm comming in late, and that this won't be read by everyone it should, but... what can you do? Point one: You Choose, and Mrs. Mommie- Christians are by no means a minority in this country. There are more Christians in America today than any other group. Point two: Whether you realise it or not, you are saying that you're beliefs supercede the rights of others. I can site specific examples and explain them if you like, but it's best to sum it up thusly- By denying any people the basic rights that you and I, and every other American adult share, merely based on your personal beliefs, is wrong. And, the coup de grace: Point three: Getting straight back to the topic at hand (whether same sex marriages is against the Constitution of the United States of America) I will now post said document IN IT'S ENTIRETY.  |
|
Date: 7/12/2003 10:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 47166
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Article. I. Section 1. All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives. Section. 2. Clause 1: The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature. Clause 2: No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen. Clause 3: Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. (See Note 2) The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New-York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three. Clause 4: When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies. Clause 5: The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment. Section. 3. Clause 1: The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, (See Note 3) for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote. Clause 2: Immediately after they shall be assembled in Consequence of the first Election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three Classes. The Seats of the Senators of the first Class shall be vacated at the Expiration of the second Year, of the second Class at the Expiration of the fourth Year, and of the third Class at the Expiration of the sixth Year, so that one third may be chosen every second Year; and if Vacancies happen by Resignation, or otherwise, during the Recess of the Legislature of any State, the Executive thereof may make temporary Appointments until the next Meeting of the Legislature, which shall then fill such Vacancies. (See Note 4) Clause 3: No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen. Clause 4: The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided. Clause 5: The Senate shall chuse their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the Absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of President of the United States. Clause 6: The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present. Clause 7: Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law. Section. 4. Clause 1: The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators. Clause 2: The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such Meeting shall be on the first Monday in December, (See Note 5) unless they shall by Law appoint a different Day. Section. 5. Clause 1: Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business; but a smaller Number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide. Clause 2: Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member. Clause 3: Each House shall keep a Journal of its Proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such Parts as may in their Judgment require Secrecy; and the Yeas and Nays of the Members of either House on any question shall, at the Desire of one fifth of those Present, be entered on the Journal. Clause 4: Neither House, during the Session of Congress, shall, without the Consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other Place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting. Section. 6. Clause 1: The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. (See Note 6) They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, beprivileged from Arrest during their Attendance at |
