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Date: 9/20/2003 12:04:00 PM
From Authorid: 2030
George Bush was elected as president according to the laws and the constitution of the United States. Bush had already come out ahead after a re-count in accordance with Florida law. The Supreme court decision stopped further re-counts and therefore re-affirmed the election results. That is ALL they did. As for the electoral college: YES absolutely we need it and for the same reason it was instituted in the first place. If you remember back to the election of 2000 there was a county by county map showing who carried that particular county ( also called the red map). It was called the red map because over 85% of the counties in the US and 90% of the land area was won by Bush. Gore on the other hand carried most if not all of the large urban areas and heavily populated states. In fact you could drive from northern California to the Carolina coast and never drive through a county won by Gore. If not for the electoral college the election process and in fact all presidential elections would be controlled by New York, Los Angeles and a handfull of other urban areas. This is where all campaigning would be done and these would be the only areas that a president would have to represent. THIS is the real reason for the electoral college.  |
Date: 9/20/2003 12:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
Bush is constitutionally our president. Article 2 section 1 of the constitution has our president elected by an electoral college and the 12th amendment also deals with it. A president elected by the majority would be unconstitutional. BCAR's comment was right on with some of the reasons we vote by electoral college.  |
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Date: 9/20/2003 1:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
I meant elected by the majority vote but not the majority of the electoral college would be unconstitutional. |
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Date: 9/20/2003 3:39:00 PM
From Authorid: 1225
The Florida election was a farce. How else could 91,000 people have had their right to vote stipped illegally? I reference this AP story from last year: "LOS ANGELES.- The last presidential election, Greg Palast, journalist for the BBC and the newspaper The Guardian, investigated a voters purge list in the Florida electoral list. According to his investigation, up to 57,000 persons, the majority of them African American and Democrats, had their voting rights removed. The story is repeated in today´s election. In his book, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, Palast tells how the State of Florida hired a company named DBT for four million dollars to remove felons from the electoral list to keep them from voting. Palast demonstrates how Jeb Bush´s office asked DBT to grow the list to the max, including voters with similar names and born on the same date as the felons. Thousands of people came to the electoral office to vote only to find out that they were felons. Originally we thought it was 57,000 people that were purged. Now I got the info from DBT that there were 94,000 people in this list. 91,000 were innocent. If those people have voted, Al Gore would most likely have received the 537 votes that he needed to win. What makes the story so sad and rotten is that the Secretary of State of Florida, Katherine Harris, has agreed that innocent people were removed, but they dragged their feet and have used this same list in this election. According to the settlement from the NAACP lawsuit, the State has to revise the list and return the voting rights to the innocent ones. But they are going to wait until after the elections to do so. Jeb Bush arranged to steal the election in 2000 for his brother, and is keeping it stolen for his own re-election. Election 2000 is not old news; it’s what happening on Tuesday. On top of that, computerized voting - it’s a real nightmare. Machines continue to fail in black districts in Florida. It happened in September and we will see it on Tuesday. All the problems of 2000, but it’s going to be worse. -What is surprising is that the main media channels are not talking about this. News organizations are fearful about getting info out on a president during war time. DBT has recognized its errors and has decided not to do any more purge lists. Did they give the four million dollars back to the State? No. I spoke with Bob Butterworth, State Attorney General, and I asked him why didn´t he present a lawsuit for this fraud against the state? He told me he´s not in charge of the investigation and he cannot arrest anyone. The investigation is in the hands of Katherine Harris. The other people that could do something about it are the US Justice Department, that is John Ashcroft, who got the job because of this theft, or the Supreme Court. Perfect crime. The cops and the criminals are the same people. Do you think that the 2004 presidential elections will depend on whether Jeb Bush wins or loses this elections? Florida is America’s swing state. It’s the only state were the vote is equally divided. That’s why they have to steal it in 2002 if they want to steal it in 2004. Isn´t there anyone doing something to restore the voting rights of these 91,000 innocent ´felons´? The NAACP is sending hundreds of students across the state to supervise the election and to educate people, telling voters that they have the right to ask for a provisional ballot if their name is in the list of purged criminals. That way they could have their vote counted once the list is revised."  |
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Date: 9/20/2003 3:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 1225
PS the electoral college and the two party system need to go. Furthermore, please refer to this chart to see why Bush, Inc. is criminal http://www.bidstrup.com/BushCronies-med.gif |
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Date: 9/20/2003 3:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 2030
I'm familiar with greg Palast and he brings few if any verfiable facts to the table. I agree that the two party system is the root cause of the fact that very little actually gets done in our Govt. As to the electoral college, it needs to stay. Imagine a country controlled by the Northeast and California alone, we are all familiar with how well their leaders and governments are working. |
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Date: 9/20/2003 6:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
1225 you say the electoral college needs to go, but how do you think that would happen? In order for it to go it needs a 2/3 vote by the Senate. Since the Senate is represented equally among the states do you really think that a less populated state will agree to give up what little power it has. This isn't the first time there's been a problem with the electoral college, it's the third but three times in two hundred years isn't a bad record. When it happened and talk of getting rid of the electoral college came up in the past no smaller state was willing to give it up because like BCAR said their state would no longer matter and they might as well secede. One of the reasons the electoral college was implemented was as an incentive to get states to join the union. What would be the benefit for the majority of states to be part of the country if their laws would be dictated by the whims of a minority of states. |
Date: 9/20/2003 9:18:00 PM
From Authorid: 29532
I agree with you completely. I think he rigged it though myself. He's a looser. A few good ideas, but I would never have voted for him. EVER.  |
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Date: 9/21/2003 1:36:00 PM
From Authorid: 1225
All you have to do is realize how undemocratic it is. Each member of the House of Representatives represents about 600,000 people (actually about 667,000 if you do the math with more current estimates) yet the least populous state, Wyoming, has only 493,782 people. Thus the people of whyoming are more powerful than the people of San Francisco (pop. 728,921 in 1992) in as much as the Wyomians have 1 Representative in the house AND 2 sentators whereas San Franciscans have one Representative (based on pop) but no single Sentator; we have to share ours with 34 million other Californians. Why is it unfair to practive democracy on simple majority rather than give greater power to the smaller states than they are entitled to? |
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Date: 9/21/2003 3:19:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
By requiring the President to be elected by a distribution of popular support adds cohesiveness to the country as a whole. Without this system there might as well be no United States. Why would any state want to be dictated by another state. It would serve no benefit to less populated states. That's why many countries have civil wars because smaller portions of the country who are not more evenly represented rise up and rebel. If you want states seceding and another civil war then that's what you'll get by getting rid of the government system we have in place. Democracy based on majority rules then means that no minority group would ever have a say. Homosexuals can kiss any thought of legal marriage good bye actually they shouldn't even be allowed to live together since the majority of people are against it. Might as well let discrimination based on race happen also. The government has safeguards to protect minority states just like it has safegaurds to protect minority groups. |
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Date: 9/21/2003 4:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 2030
The people of California have made a mess of their evironment, infrasructure, tax system, and are now seeing a massive departure of businesses that are tired of being taxed to death. They are just the type of people that Wyoming needs making decisions for them - Right? They sit on an abundance of natural resources that San Francisco would love to have to provide cheaper energy and in the process tax the devil out of for additional welfare and social programs that the folks in Wyoming have little use for. And one might wonder why Wyoming voted overwhelmingly for the Republicans. |
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Date: 9/21/2003 7:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 1225
What I don't understand is why a state with 0.2% of the country's population should have 6.5% of the legislature (3/535 seats in congress) whereas a state with 12% of the population only has 10% of the legislature (55/535 seats). |
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Date: 9/21/2003 7:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 1225
bloody computer only submitted part of my post! It was a good one too. Well, the gist of it was: I'm right, as always; you're wrong.(j/king.. sorta, that was the gist but not so bluntly) As for Wyomans voting republican, probably something in the water. I don't understand how anyone could want a republican doing anything of importance, or a democrat for that matter. But what about what I said about the two party system... don't you guys think it should go? |
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Date: 9/21/2003 7:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 1225
As for what Base said about minorities. It is an unfortunate fact of life that until the USA becomes a true democracy, prejudice, hate, and inequality will need to be addressed. In a true democracy, all citizens would fight to defend every right of every person, regardless of differences. and would do so with hesitation or reservation, and be secure in the knowledge that all other citizens would do the same for them. (Paraphrasing Rousseau in "On Social Contract") |
Date: 9/21/2003 8:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 34487
Of course President Bush is constitutionally qualified as our President. Those questionable votes, were recounted NUMEROUS times and therefore, aren't "questionable" any longer. Some people don't want to accept this reality and that's why this has been an issue for some, since he took office.  |
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Date: 9/22/2003 6:42:00 AM
From Authorid: 2030
BTW 3 out of 535 representatives is NOT 6.5% closer to .65%. |
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Date: 9/22/2003 10:22:00 AM
From Authorid: 36704
the two party system can go |
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Date: 9/22/2003 10:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 1225
Whoops, guess you're right on that. That's what happens when I do long divison on paper instead of calculators. What can I say, my math skill suck. |
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Date: 9/22/2003 10:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 1225
It's not the votes that were recounted, it's the voters who were illegally barred from even casting a ballot that's at issue. |
Date: 10/23/2003 7:12:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 3419
to the jerk who brought homosexuality into this discussion needs to go away....where in this discussion was being gay mentioned...my only reasoning is that your read my profile and saw that i was gay....you have no idea what its like to be gay so keep your negative gay opinions to yourself  |
| Date: 8/26/2004 1:34:00 PM ( Admin-DNL ) He is consitutionally the president because of the electoral college vote. I still think the person with the most votes should win, but I guess thats just the way the system works...too bad |
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Date: 9/7/2004 10:06:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 3419
i just think that if there was no electoral college....and who ever got the most votes from the people won.....then maybe people would be more interested in voting for the president and we wouldnt have such a lousy turn out year after year.....andi just remember in school being told by the professor that the electoral college voter does not have to vote the way the majority of the population of the state voted......so why have it it just makes our votes not count |
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Date: 9/7/2004 10:09:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 3419
oh a final thought do we really believe that the government is ruled by the people for the people....do we really have representation in congress and the senate....do they really make laws for our protection and well being......or do they just vote to give themselves raises...... |
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