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On Separation of Church and State, an article I want to share

  Author:  1225  Category:(Discussion) Created:(10/24/2003 2:06:00 PM)
This post has been Viewed (568 times)

The following article appeared in the San Francisco Chronicle, Oct.23, 2003 in 'Opinion'. It was written by Mr. Peter Camejo, Green Party Gubernatorial candidate in 2002 and 2003 (I voted for him both times).

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Does God Belong in the Pledge of Allegiance? Defend religious freedom -- Drop 'under God'

Peter Miguel Camejo Thursday, October 23, 2003

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The Democrats and Republicans in Congress continue to show disrespect for the founders of our nation in their protest of a court ruling that attempts to enforce the separation of church and state by removing the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.

On June 10, 1797, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed a resolution stating,

". . . the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on Christian religion . . . ." In 2002, the Senate unanimously voted to support the inclusion of "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. This reflects a 180- degree reversal of an important founding principle of our nation.

One of the many reasons that our founders insisted on freedom of religion and the separation of church and state is that they were not Christians but lived in a nation of Christians. Most Americans are unaware that many of our early presidents, such as Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, James Madison and George Washington, as well as great patriots such as Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine and Ethan Allen, did not consider themselves Christians. Their views often were carefully camouflaged in public for fear of reprisal but quite clear in their private correspondence.

Adams once wrote Jefferson that "This would be the best of all worlds, if there were no religion in it." (Letter to Jefferson, April 19, 1817). Adams explicitly argued against any reference to our government being "under" the influence of "heaven." ("A Defense of the Constitution of Government of the United States of America,'' 1788).

Many of the founding fathers were persecuted for their stand in support of the separation of church and state. The main criticism lobbed at Jefferson in his successful campaign for president was that he was an atheist. Paine died in poverty, primarily for statements such as, "The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion." ("The Age of Reason ,'' 1794).

Probably the most explicit of the early "Deists" who fought for religious freedom and the earliest fighter for separation of church and state was Jefferson. In his private letters, Jefferson made it clear he did not accept Christianity. "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, the Supreme Being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classified with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." (Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823.)

While many religious groups have suffered discrimination, such as the Jews and, today, Muslims in America and Europe, the group who has suffered the longest and most generic oppression is of those who reject religion. In the past, those who openly challenged religious beliefs faced having their tongues pierced with red-hot irons (British law), or long imprisonment, banishment or torture and death. When Jefferson first dared to question religion, the law was death for holding the views he advocated.

The Green Party, for which I was the gubernatorial candidate, understands why many people who are repelled by the crass materialism that dominates our culture, turn to religion as an antidote to our mania with money. Greens also recognize the personal sacrifice and contributions made by religious people to global peace and social justice.

Greens, in fact, favor total religious freedom -- including the right not to believe in god(s), the devil, hell or purgatory. Such freedom can only exist when church and state are kept completely separate.

Your religion is your private business. It has no part in government, in the Pledge of Allegiance, or in U.S. currency, or our public schools if we are to remain a free people with "liberty and justice for all."

Peter Miguel Camejo was the Green Party gubernatorial candidate in the 2002 and 2003 elections.

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Replies:      
Date: 10/24/2003 2:17:00 PM  From Authorid: 8024    I don't think religion should have anything to do with government either ... Yet i do believe we are one nation under GOD .... & without some higher power whatever you wanna call it budda , I don't care ... I firmly believe we couldn't exist ... Believing in a God isn't a religion ... it's a fact of life ...  
Date: 10/24/2003 2:34:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 1225    Believing in God is the definition of religion. It's not a fact of everyone's life; it's not a fact of my life. That's the whole thrust of my objections to "under God" "In God We Trust" and the like. I don't trust in God, nor do I consider myself "under" a God. Religion, or lack thereof, should be entirely, completely, and totally a private matter, not secret, just not forcefully faithful. By forcefully faithful, I mean like going out and knocking on people's doors and trying to convert them (my Dad used to do this every weekend) or standing in the subway station harassing the commuters about God. What I want is for everyone to worship if they want to, talk others if they (by they I mean both parties) want to, but don't go into a big theological harangue and try to "save" everyone nor promote your views as "ought to be law".  
Date: 10/24/2003 2:35:00 PM  From Authorid: 53284    I also do not believe that the government is the proper place for religion. BUT, I also belive that government should not stop the free exercise of an individuals religion as long as that doesn't harm others.  
Date: 10/24/2003 2:39:00 PM  From Authorid: 16671    You need to take out those LONG lines out of your post because one has to keep going back and forth to read it. LOL, therefore I havent read it, and others may not, but I would like to.  
Date: 10/24/2003 2:41:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 1225    Free exercise does not allow the faithful to annoy, harass, molest, or otherwise impose upon anyone something they don't agree with. And religion should keep it's nose out of things. The Pope actually is telling the clergy in AIDS stricken nations to downplay anddiscourage the use of condoms, the Christian Right in America has been working for decades to codify the Bible into laws such as the Defense of Marriage act and the recently passed ban on some forms of abortion. These to examples are steeped in religious overtones, espoused by religious leaders, and impose the moral edicts of one faith upon an entire population. Religion belongs in the churches, nowhere else.  
Date: 10/24/2003 2:46:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 1225    Is that better, FB? It looked fine to me prior, youmust be running in 800x600 res.  
Date: 10/24/2003 2:49:00 PM  From Authorid: 24924    Believing in ANY god IS a religion. It is a "fact of life" for MANY people, but it is NOT the same for MANY as well. Religious LIBERTY , as guaranteed by our Constitution, says that we ALL can believe whatever we want to, and or hold NO belief in gods at all if we so choose. And, CC 28, please do not proclaim to the entire world and all therein, that YOU are speaking for ALL citizens, ALL Americans, when you say WE are one nation "under God", or in God "WE" trust, for millions of US are NOT included in that "WE".  
Date: 10/24/2003 3:22:00 PM  From Authorid: 24924    Is it not better to proclaim to the world that WE ARE UNITED, as ONE, INDIVISIBLE , with LIBERTY and justice for ALL, as was originally laid down by our founding fathers? When you ADD the "god" equasion in there, that is being divisive, and exclusionary to millions of US to do not hold such beliefs. Rusure's post is about the best explanation I've seen in a long time, and capture's the very essence of religious LIBERTY set forth in the Constitution.  
Date: 10/24/2003 3:45:00 PM  From Authorid: 16671    Ya its some what better, my son must have been messing with the puter again. *smacks son on head*  
Date: 10/24/2003 3:46:00 PM  From Authorid: 62367    I don't want government in religion or religion in government. If you practice a religion nothing can take it out of your daily activities if you do not allow it. You can pray before meals in restaurants and in school cafeterias. I have Muslim colleagues who take breaks for their prayers. One interesting aspect of the 10 Commandments debate; would'nt it have been interesting if the 10 Commandments had been left in the court room but had to be joined by say the Wiccan Wrede, portions of the Muslim Sharia, the Code of Hammurabi etc. All these have either historical or current validity in aspects of law and religion of US citizens.  
Date: 10/24/2003 3:50:00 PM  From Authorid: 16671    I don't agree with some of the post, But I'm not going to go into the parts I dont agree with. However any other time I would have fought with you tooth and nail on this Issue about God in the pledge of Allegiance but since rusures posts I can see why some would want it off.  
Date: 10/24/2003 4:31:00 PM  From Authorid: 3125    I agree with the following :) "Your religion is your private business. It has no part in government, in the Pledge of Allegiance, or in U.S. currency, or our public schools if we are to remain a free people with "liberty and justice for all."   
Date: 10/24/2003 5:17:00 PM  From Authorid: 16671    In place it should say, ONE nation under FREEDOM  
Date: 10/24/2003 6:10:00 PM  From Authorid: 15070    thank you for the excellent post. I found this information important & I wish more people would see the truth. Our Founding Fathers were "Diests". Or Atheists. Or, maybe they just felt organized religion & politics were exclusive. This is an excellent post  
Date: 10/24/2003 7:50:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 1225    Thanks, but remember: I didn't write the article. It is by Peter Camejo, Green party candidate for California governor, twice. I urge all you Californians out there to vote for him the next time he runs.  
Date: 10/25/2003 7:20:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    I agree with FB and Rusure on this one.  
Date: 10/25/2003 8:26:00 PM  From Authorid: 24924    You Choose, please go back and read what Rusure said, and then explain how YOU could have said THIS on another post of the same subject: QUOTE: "Well, I feel that by removing any references to God, we are then basically a country that doesn't honor him and therefore one that shows favoritism toward the Atheists view"<<<<<<< PLEASE explain?  
Date: 10/25/2003 9:01:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    Well, there's an easy explanation for that....because I know where Rusure is coming from. Her view of our country not honoring God by way of it's actions and views and therefore shouldn't be placed on money or anything else pretending to be. Of course, I'm not quoting her there but that's kind of my take on it. I agree that she makes some very valid points. I also feel though, that all absence of God is Satan. I am a bit torn on this subject but as I have stated many, MANY times....regardless of my opinion, what will be, will be. This is the route our country is choosing to take and it's inevitable. Just because I enjoy seeing the name "God" on things that I've always seen them on since I was born, doesn't mean I'm naive enough to not see other perspectives.  
Date: 10/25/2003 9:06:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    One more thing.... I corrected the above quote you gave of mine. It was corrected to say..."Well, I feel that by removing ALL references to God, we are then basically a country that doesn't honor him and therefore one that shows favoritism toward the Atheists view." I see the points Rusure has given and agree with many of them and I also still hold onto the comfort I receive by seeing the name of God on things. Nothing wrong with that.  
Date: 10/26/2003 12:21:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    I see where my words on the other post you spoke of and this appear contradictory. I've replied to numerous posts with this SAME subject and apparently got myself confused while replying. Guilty as charged....  
Date: 10/26/2003 7:23:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 1225    failing to mention God on money is favoritism to atheists just as much as failing to mention meat products on money is favoritism to vegans.  
Date: 10/26/2003 8:28:00 PM  From Authorid: 34487    Well in your opinion it is obviously but not to many others. Maybe the best solution might be something along the lines of what FB mentioned with, "Under Freedom."  

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