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Does Choice/Chance Really Exist? -Pyro-

  Author:  16849  Category:(Debate) Created:(10/27/2003 4:49:00 PM)
This post has been Viewed (454 times)

Let me start off by saying this post isn't purposely confusing because I'm a pompous jerk or anything of the sort, I am probably just having a hard time putting in to words what I am trying to say, so I apologize beforehand.

So I was thinking, when you drop a little rock off the top of a hill, it seems impossible to predict with certainty where it will end up because of the seemingly endless possibilities such as a pebble here, a pebble there, an indent in the ground and so on and so forth... But suppose you know all the variables, the weight of the rock, the speed at which it is dropped, wind resistence when it falls, how hard the ground is, where all the pebbles are, etc. and you had the formula to how X would affect Y and so on, then would you be able to predict with certainty where it's going to end up?

If you answered yes to that question, then does chance or choice actually exist? Or is it just ignorance or lack of information?

If (hypothetically speaking) you were able to go back to the beginning of the creation of the world, then was there any chance when it comes to the location of things like the Milky Way and Jupiter within the universe?

Like, for example, after the Big Bang, wasn't all that stuff that was expanding outward just following the laws of physics that we are aware of and those that we are not? And then in that case, there wouldn't be any chance involved in where planets and stars were formed right?

I mean, how could there be chance when you're just following rules? Is there a spacerock somewhere that can randomly defy the laws of nature?

And now, if you rule out the possibility of choice, doesn't that also rule out the possibility of God? Doesn't God know ALL the variables? But didn't God also grant us free will?

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Replies:      
Date: 10/27/2003 4:57:00 PM  From Authorid: 53284    At the end of a long day at work, my head hurts too much to comtemplate your question.  
Date: 10/27/2003 5:08:00 PM  From Authorid: 62395    God gave us free will because GOD wanted us to freely turn to Him and not be forced. We do have the choice to follow God and it lets us realize when we do turn to God that God and his love is real.
Date: 10/27/2003 5:31:00 PM  From Authorid: 16671    OH no, not another Gods not possible post.  
Date: 10/27/2003 7:00:00 PM  From Authorid: 29262    I think that you use choices and chances are possible choices. So lets say you either: 1.Graduate from highschool and never go back to education but win $20,000,000 in a jackpot sometime in your life
2.Graduate college and live life deciently with some luxuries. Which ever one you pick is your choice but you have a chance both ways. What happens if you pick 1. and get the 20,000,000 when you are 80 years old. You don't really get that long with your money. Lets say you pick 2. Your lawfirm or where ever you work shuts down. Then they reposess some things. You see. Theres a chance for every choice. You gotta pick wisey :) (hope it wasnt THAT confusing)
  
Date: 10/27/2003 7:22:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 16849    Oh come on now, Firstborn. You know you love them! Ok then, forget the final paragraph. Pretend it was never there, the question remains if whether or not choices and chance really exists.  
Date: 10/27/2003 7:38:00 PM  From Authorid: 54987    God and free will has already been done to death here. We can only call something 'chance' because we are not aware of all the variables. They say that if you knock toast off a table it'll end butter face down more times than not. Everything is of course following the laws of physics as we perceive them. Choice is the outcome of free will. Some say that a biblical God knows everything that will happen, so in that case it would be illogical to say that we have free will. We appear to have free will, but it's not a certainty just as there is not a certainty that a God exists.  
Date: 10/27/2003 7:56:00 PM  From Authorid: 16671    LOL, thats a good question..  
Date: 10/27/2003 8:54:00 PM  From Authorid: 3125    In the following "But suppose *you know* all the variables"..Here you supposed there would be someone with an intellect and a reasoning ability in order to draw conclusions. Pure chance has no knowledge of anything nor does it have a reasoning ability.  
Date: 10/28/2003 8:24:00 AM  From Authorid: 13974    Does it rule out God's existance? I don't think so, but it does bring up the question of his intentions, and our relationship to him. IN a world where the Christian God exists, free will cannot exist. Our limited information though would create the illusion. And what do you mezan it has been done to death?! I am still on my free will dabate way back there! hehehehe  

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