Date: 2/11/2004 1:01:00 PM
From Authorid: 8555
I;m learning at school about transliteration the name of God, and I learned all about Yahweh, but my teacher had a different explanation for translating it to Jehova, I can't remember exactly, but I'll look into it.  |
Date: 2/11/2004 1:05:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
I know how the translation came about I just didn't go into it, it still means what it means, look up hovah in a hebrew dictionary it means ruin or mischief  |
Date: 2/11/2004 1:13:00 PM
From Authorid: 12835
Potato, potata. He know's when He's being addressed...  |
Date: 2/11/2004 1:20:00 PM
From Authorid: 62344
hmmm thats crazy i wonder why they would do that. ill just call God whatever I want untill He tells me differently. :)  |
Date: 2/11/2004 1:22:00 PM
From Authorid: 11723
I personally always found interesting that "Elohim" is actually a plural name for God. "Elohei" is singular. God has so many aliases I couldn't begin to count them.  |
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Date: 2/11/2004 1:25:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
I agree St. Pete, but when some people make such a big deal about his name being removed from the Bible and how important it is to address him by it, they should at least get it right. Even the Webster's Dictionary and Encyclopedia Britannica have Jehovah as an erroneous spelling of God's name. |
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Date: 2/11/2004 1:26:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
lol Chiquita Chase, if he ever tells you to call him something different, let us know |
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Date: 2/11/2004 1:30:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Elohim is a plural noun |
Date: 2/11/2004 3:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 62506
Hiya Base,I like your style. And your tutoroal is right on Base!he he!*sorry*I am fluent in Hebrew and Greek.I was tutored in Hebrew under a Rabbi. The first hint to the hidden pronunciation to Gods name was given to Moses. Moses asked God who shall I say sent me. Gods reply was,(to paraphrase) I Am that I Am. When spoken in Hebrew it sounuds this way, E'yah asher E'yah. Ask a Rabbi to say the name of God it will sound like this, E'yah'hoi'veh. The letters "V"and "W" sound identical to one another in Hebrew,ie.,"vau". An interesting fact in reference to the "I Am"name of God, known first in the bible, is that the center word,"asher" was also the name of one of the tribes of Israel.There's more.Ever wonder what the name Jesus Christ sounds like in Hebrew? It's interresting too.But I've said enough on your great post.Thanks for letting me share with you a little.:) Don aka woodshed  |
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Date: 2/11/2004 5:03:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Thanks for the comment woodshed, I don't know a lot of Hebrew but I know some. I'm still working on Greek, I'm fluent in it but I still need some more work and then I plan on studying and becoming fluent in Hebrew. You're always more than welcome to say whatever or however much you want on my posts. |
Date: 2/11/2004 7:44:00 PM
From Authorid: 54987
Wow! Now that's a new one on me. I'll believe Yah.  |
Date: 2/11/2004 9:32:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I think pete has it right. I know when I'm talking to God, he knows it.  |
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Date: 2/11/2004 9:51:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
maybe it was the new thing you learned for the day Koolade lol |
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Date: 2/11/2004 9:55:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
I agree FB God knows a person's heart and knows who they're speaking to. I'm just tired of having it come up in debates where people act like they're superior because they brought back God's name so that somehow makes them better than everyone else and right at the same time when they never brought back God's name, all they brought back was an erroneous translation that doesn't even mean the same thing as God's name. If bringing back God's name is so important to them they should at least get it right. |
Date: 2/11/2004 10:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
excellent post base! I knew the Hebrew Alphabet did not have vowels. I agree with St. Pete. Our Creator, no matter what name you use, knows you are talking to Him (Them). It is very interesting about the word Hovah, however. And, quite ironic too. Good post!  |
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Date: 2/11/2004 10:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
and, yes, Base, there is a certain irony also to the "Purests" claiming to hold the name of God (especially in a Superior, or Condensending manner, you would think they would look at the word just a little more closely). Wonderful observation, Base! |
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Date: 2/11/2004 10:17:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
thanks for the comments LSG yeah I find it rather ironic also |
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Date: 2/12/2004 10:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 16671
I KNOW base, I've seen that a lot, although its not so much this week. I guess it would be great to feel that one is "better than thou" LOL. I think some people forget that GOD so loved the WORLD. Amen to this post. |
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Date: 2/12/2004 11:48:00 AM
From Authorid: 42940
Hi Base, I agree with your post. I believe it does matter. I belive it matters to God too because He tells us in the second chapter of Hosea. Focus for a minute in on chapter 2 verse 17 "I will remove the names of the Baals (Satan) from her lips; no longer will their names be invoked". Now, do you think a correction will be made to correct this ghastly mistake? I seriously doubt it. *** bad kitty *** |
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Date: 2/12/2004 1:02:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
I don't know bad kitty, I just know that Yahweh is the correct name. There's a lot of places in the bible like Hosea, Isaiah 42:8 I am YHWH, that is My Name, and My glory will I not give to another, Exodus 20:2 "I am YHWH your Elohim which brought you out of the Land of Egypt. You shall have no other mighty ones before me." Psalm 135:13 "Thy Name endures forever, your memorial throughout all generations." Dan. 9:19 "O YHWH, hear; O YHWH, forgive; O YHWH, hearken and do; defer not, for your own sake, O my Elohim: for your city and your people are called by your name" and more, will they change it, couldn't tell ya. |
Date: 2/26/2004 4:47:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
Yahweh is to Jehovah as Yeshua is to Jesus. The meaning of Jehovah is "he who cause to become" Jesus means "Jehovah is Salvation" If you want to use the hebrew form, why use the English form for Jesus?  |
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Date: 2/26/2004 5:03:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Yahweh is not to Jehovah as Yeshua is to Jesus, I have no idea where you got that information AmarelaFlor it's a mistranslation, a misspelling ya know kinda like school=skool |
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Date: 2/27/2004 8:39:00 AM
From Authorid: 31145
Most names change to some extent when transferred from one language to another. Jesus was born a Jew, and his name in Hebrew was most likely pronounced Ye-shu'-a' but the inspired writers of the Christian Scriptures did not hesitate to use the Greek form of the name, I-e-sous'. In English we use the form Jesus. It is the same for Jehovah. Jehovah is the accepted English form of the Hebrew Yahweh. These are some of the Bible translations that use that English form. The New English Bible, American Standard Version, King Jame's Version, Today's English Version, Douay Version, footnotes, The New World Translation, The Bible in Living English, The 'Holy Scriptures' translated by J.N. Darby, The Emphatic Diaglott, The Holy Bible, translated by Robert Young. Just to name a few. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 10:02:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
No, it is not correct, the introduction of The American Standard states the proper way of spelling YHWH in the English language would be Yahweh, not Jehovah. The New World Translation and the Emphatic Diaglott are translated by Jehovah Witnesses who have publicly acknowledged that Yahweh is correct. In their book Let Your Name Be Sanctified pages 16-18 they admit Yahweh is the superior translation of the tetragrammaton. In the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of Greek Scriptures page 23 "While inclining to view the pronunciation 'Yahweh' as the more correct way, we have retained the form 'Jehovah' because of people's familiarity with it since the 14th century." It is a mistransliteration that is only kept out of tradition even though it's been known for centuries it is incorrect. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 10:55:00 AM
From Authorid: 31145
Preface of the American Standard Version Standard Edition: 1. The change first proposed in the Appendix--that which substitutes "Jehovah" for "Lord" and "God"(printed in small capitals)--is one which will be unwelcome to many, because of the frequency and familiarity of the terms displaced. But the American Revisers, after a careful consideration, were brought to the unanimous conviction that a Jewish superstition, which regarded the Divine Name as too sacred to be uttered, ought no longer to dominate in the English or any other version of the Old Testament, as it fortunately does not in the numberous versions made by modern missionaries." The Emphatic Diaglott was NOT translated by Jehovah's Witnesses but they purchased the PUBLISHING rights. You will always be able to find experts who will disagree but the fact that so many Bible translators viewed Jehovah as the most accurate English form of Yahweh is a basis for it's usage. It's not how you say His name but that you use it and honor it that matters. It appears differently and is pronounced differently in other languages, Spanish, for example. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 11:08:00 AM
From Authorid: 42940
Base, you must admit it's pretty shocking to find out you've been praying to Satan. And until a person gets out of the power of mind control they can't see straight. It's so ironic that they accept secular sources such as an encyclopedia that says "December 25 was not Christ's birthday" but yet reject the same encyclopedia that says Jehovah is an ERRONEOUS translation. *** bad kitty *** |
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Date: 2/27/2004 11:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 31145
Knowing what the Bible teaches helps to differentiate between what is accurate and what isn't. For example, the fact that the shepherds were in the fields at Jesus birth indicates that it couldn't have occured in December. When people take time to read it, the Bible is a clear guide as to what is appropriate and what isn't. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 11:49:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
People finding it acceptable and it being correct are not the same thing. It's not correct and that's not a few experts that agree, that's almost all experts including the Church's that still use Jehovah agree that it is indeed incorrect. The fact that people still find it acceptable I've already stated I don't think it's a big deal but if someone is going to go into a debate or use the fact that they are superior and so is their religion because they put the name of God back then they should at least get it correct since it is they who make the big deal out of it. I meant used not translated for the Emphatic Diaglott. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 11:50:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
It is erroneous bad kitty but I'm sure God knows their heart and that's what matters. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 11:58:00 AM
From Authorid: 31145
Jesus accused the religious leaders of his day of "straining out the gnat and gulping down the camel". How we pronounce God's name is not even mentioned in the Bible as being of importance. There is not ONE command on how to say it. However, there are many references to the fact that he wants his name hallowed and properly represented by his people. Many of the Jews at the time of the destruction of the temple in 607 and later in 70 made a practice of "calling on" God's name but they were steeped in false doctrine and traditions which made their worship in vain, Jesus said, quoting God's words in Isaiah at Matthew 15:9. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 12:01:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
made a practice of "calling on" God's name but they were steeped in false doctrine and traditions which made their worship in vain, exactly almost all of the ones who incorrectly use the tetramgrammaton translation are steeped in false doctrine and man made teachings, that replace Jesus with their Church and their worship is in vain |
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Date: 2/27/2004 12:07:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Whether you want to accept that Jehovah is incorrect doesn't matter to me and doesn't change the fact that it is indeed incorrect. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 12:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
It's true for individuals as well as "experts". Making a statement and backing it up are two different things. I'm assuming that you are referring to Jehovah's Witnesses as one group that is steeped in traditions and man's doctrine and I challenge you to produce even one. The issue of how God's name is pronounced is a moot point as there are equal numbers of experts and accepted Bible translators and Bible versions that accept the English form of Yahweh, Jehovah. I can back up the statement I made about the Jewish religious leaders because the Bible is filled with what they were doing wrong. What about you? |
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Date: 2/27/2004 12:22:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
lol you'd be surprised what I have on the Jehovah's Witnesses |
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Date: 2/27/2004 12:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
I'm waiting. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 12:28:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
you're gonna have to wait awhile because it's gonna take a long time |
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Date: 2/27/2004 12:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 42940
JWs are warned to stay away from this wicked world and not even touch the "detestible things". So forget about shopping at the Salvation Army or letting your kids swim at the YMCA. It's part of false religion (i.e. the prostitute riding the scarlet beast). Yet the Watchtower was a UN NGO member for 10 years (and only got out once they were found out). How's that for straining over a gnat and swollowing a camel? You want one examle of man made doctrine? I'll give you two. Let's see; men can't wear beards and women must wear dresses to the Kingdom Hall. I'm sure I could come up with some more but it's been a while and I don't have time right now. *** bad kitty *** |
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Date: 2/27/2004 12:37:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
I'm really very interested in hearing what you have to say so take all the time you need. I'll be checking in. I've looked at your profile (which didn't tell me much) and was reviewing some of your other posts. My posts are under the author ID 35031. I've lost my logging on info and have been using my daughters. Anyway, I'm really interested to hear what you have. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 12:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
Bad Kitty; there are NO religions that are members of the UN. The only religion that even has a NON-memeber status is the Catholic Church because the Vatican claims to be a state. They have influence and can influence decisions but no other religion has that status. No one is not accepted in the congreation because of wearing a beard. I personally know a brother who wears one. As to womem wearing dresses, I know of 2 sisters that ALWAYS wear pants. I don't know where you are getting your facts but they are not accurate. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 1:51:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Start at the beginning the JW's sprang from the same movement as the seventh day adventists following William Miller's teachings who predicted the end of the world in 1843 which makes Miller a false prophet. When the end of the world didn't happen he "found" a mathematical error, people became frustrated and left. Charles Russell was one of them. Charles Russell was sued for promoting miracle wheat and lost in court and also marketed a fake cancer cure, not exactly a stellar human being. Russell predicted the coming of Jesus in 1914 when it didn't happen he changed his teachings, that makes him a false prophet. Then he claimed Jesus did return but invisibly, the Bible clearly states Jesus's coming will be visible that makes that a false doctrine. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 1:52:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
When Rutherford took over he claimed in 1918 that millions then living would never die. He prepared Beth Sarim a mansion in 1925 for the coming of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in San Diego and bought a car to drive them around in and moved into the mansion they never showed up in his lifetime, the second false prophet. The Society shortly after his death sold Beth Sarim to try to cover up the false prophecy. During Rutherford's time the Society did not teach that Jesus was the archangel Michael. 1921 "Jesus was not an angel or a spirit being, because we have the positive statement of the apostle to the effect that 'we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels (Hebrew 2:9) And again: Foreasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same (Hebrews 2:14) Furthermore, he was at one time rich in heavenly power and glory and became poor for the sake of mankind by taking upon himself the nature of man (2 Corinthians 8:9). They change their teachings under "new light" according to Psalm 4:18 but new light cannot contradict old light their original teaching of Jesus's humanity then his being Michael is a contradiction which according to their own admonition cannot then be new light, yet they've contradicted themselves with new light more than once. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 1:52:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
At one time the Society did teach Jesus died on the cross and even printed pictures of it then changed to he died on a stake another contradiction. The Society Watchtower 1979 states that salvation is through works and membership in the society. The Bible says salvation is through Jesus Christ. The Watchtower replaces Jesus with themselves and teaches that people's salvation relies on being a member, another false doctrine. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 1:52:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
They predicted armegaddon in 1925 and 1975, as both years approached their literature is filled with things about armageddon, as 1975 approached they actually publicly praised members for quitting jobs and homes to prepare for the end when it didn't come they publicly admonished those same people. They also told people that they should not go to college or have children because armageddon was coming. Both are failed prophecies, the Bible clearly states that you will know a false prophet when what he says does not come to pass. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 1:52:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
In the 1930's they didn't allow vaccinations but started allowing them in the 1950's. They didn't allow organ transplants in 1967 but allowed them in 1980 did the Bible change? No, the Watchtower changed their stance to please their members. That's their whole M.O. it was started by a conman, continued by conmen who sit at the top and get rich by leading people astray. They are not concerned with actual doctrine as much as they are control over their people because it's the control that continues to bring in money, that's apparent by the fact they also will change their doctrines in other countries who will not let the church reside there unless they do, so they change it and teach something else to those people. |
Date: 2/27/2004 1:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
No one needs an organization to find God, God goes to anyone who asks him into their heart. The way to salvation is through Jesus and not some man made organization.
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Date: 2/27/2004 1:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
It's all about mind reform with them and emotional appeal that's why they control almost every aspect of their members lives. JW's have a paranoia rate and a paranoid schizophenic rate much greater than the average person because the Watchtower uses the same tactic as other cults and political regimes to pit their members against everyone else. Everyone else is deceived by the devil and are evil, but they don't stop there because despite what JW's try to portray they also have a much higher rate of depression than average because the society pits members against each other. People must turn in other people etc. so that JW's are not only isolated from society but also isolated within their own congregations for fear of being disfellowshipped or punished. The Watchtower makes sure they control every aspect of these people's lives in order to try to ensure that it's not easy for them to leave. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 1:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
The Watchtower is a revolving door religion a very small percentage are members for life that's why they're so intent on recruiting. They have their members go door to door to ensure that new members keep coming in so the fat cats at the top stay rich. They do pay certain members of their organazation even though many claim all do it for free. They also lie about no profitting from their materials and only charge to cover the costs yet their financial records prove otherwise. Another reason they push their products as the only "correct" ones not because they are and they readily admit that when it comes down to it when questioned but lie to their own members just so they'll by their material. What does the Bible say about peddlers of books? |
Date: 2/27/2004 1:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
The society also changes old Awake and Watchtower pamphlets when they put them in books for their members to cover up for their lies and false prophecies, that's another reason that they are so adament about their members only reading Watchtower approved things, they have a lot to hide. But, just like other old magazines and newspapers there are still originals out there that show what they really said and the real dates they originally used. Why would an organization need to lie to their own members? Where in the Bible is that allowed or is that just another man made doctrine of theirs the same as lying to people when you first make contact going door to door. The whole religion teaches deception and uses lies and control to get and keep members. It's filled with man made doctrine I have a whole lot more but I need to work on a paper for school, so if you want more let me know, personally I really feel sorry for JW's because they don't even know that they're being controlled they think it's everyone else when in reality it's them, although they're not the only ones, there are other religions that use the same tactics. And not all of the Watchtower's teachings are wrong they have some very good teachings but they're not the faithful and discreet slave of God, they're just another group of people at the top getting rich while playing with peoples' lives.
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Date: 2/27/2004 2:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
There are so many inaccurate statements in what you have written that I don't even know where to begin. First and foremost, you can't be a false prophet if you've never claimed to be a prophet in the first place. There have been changes because of clarity of understanding just as the Bible prophecied that light would get brighter and brighter as the end approached. Daniel was also told that in the end times true knowledge would become abundant, indicating a clarity of understanding as time went on. I've have heard these accusations so many times in my 50 years as a witness I can't even count them. NEVER has anyone in Jehovah's organization done more than speculate as to the possibility of certain times and events. The Bible clearly shows that no man knows the day or hour. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 2:19:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"He had a prophet to warn them. This prophet was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was a small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students." The International Bible Students is an early name for the Jehovah’s Witnesses. They THEMSELVES claimed to be prophets lmao, of course everything I said is wrong, it's all lies. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 2:34:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
What does the society say about predictions that don't come true. "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world," even announcing a specific date. Some have gathered groups of people with them and fled to the hills or withdrawn into their houses waiting for the end. Yet, nothing happened. The "end" did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying." They themselves by their own definition are guilty of false prophesy. |
Date: 2/27/2004 2:45:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
NEVER has anyone in Jehovah's organization done more than speculate as to the possibility of certain times and events that's a blatant lie, "However, the Bible's time clock does indicate to us that 6,000 years of human history end in this year 1975." That's not a speculation that's saying that the Bible clearly states the end is in 1975 a specific year. "This is another strong corrobative proof of the Lord's presence and of the end of the world, beginning in 1914."
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Date: 2/27/2004 2:46:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
Just as the prophet Daniel pinpointed the year that the Messiah would appear so the Bible indicated when God said that Christ would "rule thou in the MIDST of thine enemies." Ps. 110:1&2. So Jesus would be ruling during a time that his enemies were still present and active. Just as the prophet Daniel was used to foretell his appearance as Messiah fittingly this same prophet foretold his appearance as King. At Daniel 12:4 the angel told Daniel to seal up the book even to the time of the end when knowlege would be increased. So no one would understand Daniel completely until then then true knowledge would be revealed. Isn't it interesting that the International Bible Students were able to pinpoint that very year as early as 1882 because of an understanding of the prophecy in Daniel not because of some new information. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 2:53:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
Please read what you are writing. Saying that 6,000 years end in 1975 is not saying that this system will end in that year and I can show you an article in the Awake magazine of 1968 entitled "Why are you looking to 1975?" Explaining that no one knows and our faith should never revolve around a speculated time. I want to know article page of the earlier comment about the prophet being in a body of men. I can show you an article that a former witness quoted on this site where he claimed the Bible students claimed to be a prophet. I happened to have the very volume and article and was able to quickly refute his misquotation. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 2:59:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
No, what's interesting is that they predicted the visible return of Christ in 1914 and then when it didn't happen and members left in droves they created the doctrine of the invisible return of Christ, which goes against Matt 24:26-27, Matt 24:30, Mark 13:26, Luke 17:24, Luke 21:27, 1 Ti 6:14, 2 Ti 4:8, Titus 2:13, Heb 9:28, 1 John 2:28, 1 John 3:2, Zech 12:10 and Rev 1:7 |
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Date: 2/27/2004 3:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
Your comment about how the society changes old "pamphlets" is absolutely ridiculous. Older members of the organization have their original copies in their personal libraries. Many dating back to the early 1900's. Just how would they go back and make changes? Your comments that our "turn-over" was such that we have to keep new ones coming in to keep up the numbers is acturally laughable. In my lifetime I have seen our number grow from 1 to almost 7 million. MOST of Jehovah's Witnesses NEVER change and we are the happiest people I know. In fact, I know of only 2 people in my association with over 40 congregations that left being witnesses and never returned. People that I worked with always commented on my unshakable joy and the positive attitude of the other witnesses at my work. On this website several have commented on various posts designed to criticize Jehovah's Witnesses about how nice and friendly the witnesses they know are. Your comment about witnesses and paranoia is just downright ignorant. Check your history books and you will find that the early congregation under the apostles was set up exactly like Jehovah's modern day organization and Hebrews 10;24&25 says plainly not to forsake the gathering of yourselves together as some have the custom. But to encourage one another especially as you behold the day drawing near. I want to know what source that quote was taken from. The one about the prophet being the International Bible Students. I want Vol. and page (and paragraph if possisble). |
Date: 2/27/2004 3:13:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
The fact that fifty-four years of the period called the "last days" have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God. October 8, 1968 Awake did the corrupt system of things end in 1975 the date predicted?
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Date: 2/27/2004 3:14:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
and the what to look forward to in 1975 article says Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man's existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah's seventh creative "day." Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the "sixth day," which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam's 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or "day" ended, and how long Adam lived into the "seventh day." And yet the end of that sixth creative "day" could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam's creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years. It's been years since 1975 what happened?
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Date: 2/27/2004 3:17:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man's existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent.
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Date: 2/27/2004 3:17:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that "concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the "day and hour."
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Date: 2/27/2004 3:20:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
The Approaching Peace of a Thousand Years 1969 booklet More recently earnest researchers of the Holy Bible have made a recheck of its chronology. According to their calculations the six millenniums of mankind's life on earth would end in the mid-seventies. Thus the seventh millennium from man's creation by Jehovah God would begin within less than ten years |
Date: 2/27/2004 3:21:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
In view of the short period of time left, we want to do this as often as circumstances permit. Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of man's existence on earth is completed. March, 1968
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Date: 2/27/2004 4:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
At John 14:19 Jesus said that "A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but you will behold me because I live and you will live." 1 Timothy 6:16 shows that no man has seen him nor can see him. At Acts 1:11 the disciples are told by an angel that JEsus will return in the same manner that he ascended. This coincides with what Jesus said above as it was only Jesus' true followers that saw his ascension. This has been an understanding of Jehovah's organization for as long as I've known. It is not hard to understand when you look back to how Jehovah dealt with his organization in times past. He allowed them to grow in understanding. Many of the things Jesus taught were hidden from the disciples for many years and weren't revealed to them until long after his death the Bible tells us. So that his modern day organization would grow in understanding is not only understandable it's loving on God's part to let his people gradually adjust and grow. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 4:26:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
AGAIN; NEVER DID THE ORGANIZATION SAY THAT THE END OF THIS SYSTEM WOULD OCCUR IN 1975. ONly that that would end 6000 years of man's existance. The Bible labled these times "the last days" At 1 Corinthians 10:11 Paul refers to the ends of systems (plural) because they were facing the end of a system as we are. The "last days" of Jerusalem lasted from 33 to 70 and that was just one small part of the world. Logically the last days of an entire world system would take longer and the preaching of the good news must covef a much larger field. We are accomplishing the publishing of hte good news of God's Kingdom in all the earth. I don't see anyone else doing it in the same manner that Jesus and the early disciples did. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 4:49:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
It's well documented how they made changes and I'm sure you already know how they could do it and I don't need to explain it to you, you can acknowledge it or not I don't care. "In my lifetime I have seen our number grow from 1 to almost 7 million" it's almost six million not seven it's around 5.8 million and yours isn't the fastest growing religion. It's called population growth, what is the growth rate of Jehovah Witnesses compared to the population growth then take the number of people who enter the faith and the number who leave each year and it's a revolving door religion. If you're the happiest people you know then I suggest you all quit complaining to your Dr.s and entering Psychiatric hospitals and getting prescribed antidepressants and other anti psychotic drugs. The mental health status of Jehovah Witnesses is well documented in medical and psychological journals going all the way back to the 1930's. No he didn't allow them to grow and understand, he warned against false prophets in the Bible and churches like yours, you can try to explain it away any way you like doesn't change God's words. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 4:51:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
That's only because you lack the knowledge of the world because you're only fed tidbits of information that your society allows you to have otherwise you would know that the word is being spread and since yours isn't the fastest growing Christian denomination you obviously aren't spreading the word around as much as others. But go ahead and take credit where it's not due if that's what you need to continue to do to prove to yourself you're right. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 5:04:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
While the beginning of the "seventh day" is admittedly tentative, the end of the six thousand years of man's history in the fall of 1975 is not tentative, but is accepted as a certain date. |
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Date: 2/27/2004 5:07:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
a certain date ^^^ then when it didn't come to pass they said "it is not advisable for us to set our sights on a certain date, neglecting everyday things we would ordinarily care for as Christians" another nice contradiction |
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Date: 2/27/2004 5:30:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"Studies in the Scriptures" (vol. 4) says, "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874 A.D....and the formal inauguration of his kingly office dates from April 1874 A.D." |
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Date: 2/27/2004 5:30:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Creation "the second coming of the Lord therefore began in 1874... |
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Date: 2/27/2004 5:30:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Prophecy "the Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874 A.D." |
Date: 2/27/2004 5:31:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Watchtower 1923 "No one can properly understand the work of God at this time who does not realize that since 1874, the time of the Lord's return in power, there has been a complete change in God's operations."
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Date: 2/27/2004 5:31:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
The Truth Shall Make You Free "Christ Jesus came to the Kingdom in A.D. 1914, but unseen to men." So when did Jesus come 1874 or 1914, another changing of doctrine. |
Date: 2/27/2004 5:33:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"Today there is a great crowd of people who are confident that a destruction of even greater magnitude is now imminent. The evidence is that Jesus' prophecy will shortly have a major fulfillment upon this entire system of things. This has been a major factor in influencing many couples to decide not to have children at this time. They have chosen to remain childless so that they would be less encumbered to carry out the instructions of Jesus Christ to preach the good news of God's kingdom earth wide before the end of this system comes. Matt. 24:14." ( Awake! 11/8, 1974, p 11) Talking about the end of this system of things in 1975
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Date: 2/28/2004 12:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
I had a temporary internet problem and wasn't able to respond until now. First that changes could be made to books in thousands of personal homes is just unreasonable. There are sisters in my congregation who have been Jehovah's Witnesses from birth and they are in their 80's. The books and literature in her library are the original books and I have personally attended more than 40 different congregations and there are older ones just like her in every one. Logic is not on your side my friend. The Bible tells us to Keep close in mind the day. As I clearly pointed out no one knows nor claims to know the exact hour, but the sign of the last days is clearly here. To keep in expectation is exactly what we do. I recently heard a talk that showed how loving it was of God not to reveal the exact time because human nature being what it is, many would procrastinate and the time slip up on them. Our not knowing keeps us on alert. I don't know who you are quoting about 1874 but the group that became the Int'l Bible students didn't even begin to be fully organized until the 1880's and from the beginning they were only searching for answers in a Bible study group not claiming to have them all. AS I said before, we are publishing the good news throughout the earth. Thessalonians says that obedience to this message is the lifeline for right-hearted ones. The apostles weren't perfect and made many mistakes but Jesus stuck with them and even with all thier imperfections and mistakes they accomplished the work of their day ans we are doing that today. Argue all you want it's your choice but the facts remain there for people who are hones-hearted and humble. Paul said there will be ridiculers with their ridicule. What you believe is up to you but at least I have the satisfaction of knowing I did my best to set the record straight. |
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Date: 2/28/2004 2:05:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Logic is on my side, you have no logic which is the very reason you can't refute anything I say and what you say makes sense to no one except those brain washed the same as you. You know nothing except what you're fed by a group of men. You do not possess the ability to even debate. It is court documented that they changed dates and passages when putting together later books. The facts are not on your side, logic is not on your side, and you serve men not God. I don't do this for your sake, I do it for the innocent victims who you prey upon and LIE to, to get them to join your cult. You destroy families and people's lives and in your mind really believe you actually serve God...how sad. |
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Date: 2/29/2004 7:27:00 AM
From Authorid: 31145
I have never seen such hatred. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones bold enough to speak to people of all religions. I have seen more hatred expressed by "Christians" than any other religious group and yet they claim to represent Christ. You know I wish I WAS brain-washed at times because walking on a narrow path is not easy as Jesus said it would be difficult. Broad and spacious is the road to destruction. We know our Bibles, my friend. No on could tease me with untruths because of this fact. We produce the fruitage, too. And quite the contrary we UNITE families. Mine is one good example. I broke away in my younger years and experienced the "world" and even attended other churches. It was this experience that made me appreciate the precious relationship I had had with Jehovah and my fellow believers. Now after years away, my brothers are finally coming back and their expressions of relief are beautiful. Our family is only now united and I feel the love of my brothers for the first time in my grown up life. So, again my friend you are wrong and I refuted ever single objection you put on this site, you just couldn't see it. |
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Date: 2/29/2004 9:55:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
No, Amaleflor you're not the only ones bold enough to speak to people of all religions, if you knew what went on in the world you would actually know then your statement was not true. This is not hatred you can take it like that if you'd like. You refuted nothing your opinion is not a fact. That's like someone who is found guilty of murder with their blood left at the scene and their fingerprints on the weapon and their family still not believing they committed the crime. Just because the family doesn't believe it doesn't change the fact the person committed the crime. You do not know your Bible you know certain scriptures of the Bible that you look up to support what you read from the Watchtower, what the Watchtower says is more important than the Bible. You may have united some families and I'll give you that but you've destroyed far more along the way, once again check psychological journals, sociological books and journals and court documents. |
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Date: 2/29/2004 9:56:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
As for the Bible and how the Church feels about it, I'll just post quotes from the Watchertower and people can decide for themselves. |
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Date: 2/29/2004 9:56:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. We would not have discovered the truth regarding Jehovah, his purposes and attributes, the meaning and importance of his name, the Kingdom, Jesus' ransom, the difference between God's organization and Satan's, nor why God has permitted wickedness." (Watchtower 12/1/1990, pages 19) |
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Date: 2/29/2004 9:56:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
The Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1910, p. 298. -- "...people cannot see the Divine Plan in studying the Bible by itself...if he then lays them [Scripture Studies] aside and ignores them and goes to the bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the Scripture Studies with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures." |
Date: 2/29/2004 9:57:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book." (The Watchtower; July 1, 1973, pp. 402.)
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Date: 2/29/2004 9:57:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible." (The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967. p. 587.)
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Date: 2/29/2004 9:57:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." The Watchtower, August 15, 1981. |
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Date: 2/29/2004 9:57:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
1939 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, p. 85. -- "It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose." |
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Date: 2/29/2004 9:57:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave." (The Watchtower; 10/1/1994; p. 8.) |
Date: 2/29/2004 9:58:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel of communication." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 591.
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Date: 2/29/2004 9:58:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981. -- "We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the ‘faithful and discreet slave' organization."
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Date: 2/29/2004 9:58:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
The Watchtower, May 1, 1957, p. 274. -- "If we are to walk in the light of truth we must recognize not only Jehovah God as our Father but his organization as our mother."
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Date: 2/29/2004 9:58:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"We should eat and digest and assimilate what is set before us, without shying away from parts of the food because it may not suit the fancy of our mental taste...We should meekly go along with the Lord's theocratic organization and wait for further clarification, rather than balk at the first mention of a thought unpalatable to us and proceed to quibble and mouth our criticisms and opinions as though they were worth more than the slave's provision of spiritual food. Theocratic ones will appreciate the Lord's visible organization and not be so foolish as to put against Jehovah's channel their own human reasoning and sentiment and personal feelings." The Watchtower, February 1, 1952, pp. 79-80. |
Date: 2/29/2004 9:58:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"Make haste to identify the visible theocratic organization of God that represents his king, Jesus Christ. It is essential for life. Doing so, be complete in accepting its every aspect." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 591.
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Date: 2/29/2004 9:59:00 AM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Once again my allegiance lies with God and only God, not with some organization who claims to be speaking from God when they've proven over and over they do not but are continually caught in their own lies. |
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Date: 3/1/2004 10:20:00 AM
From Authorid: 31145
What you are objecting to is the Bible. Each quotation from Jehovah's organization is based on a scriptural command. For example the one about interpretations not being made by individuals. 2 Peter 2:20 "For you know this first that no prophecy of Scripture springs from ANY private interpretation, 21-For prophecy was at no time brought by man's will but men spoke as they were borne along by holy spirit" That not even the apostles were prophets, so no true Christian today can or has claimed to be a prophet - Hebrews 1:1&2 "God who LONG AGO spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things and through which he made the systems of things." Jesus was the last prophet and is guiding the congregations of his father today. At Acts 1:8 he tells the apostles how he will guide them. "but you will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth." The quotation about the faithful and discreet slave is from Matthew 24:45 "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time." and verse 45"Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so". On one of my past posts I went into detail showing how the Bible showed that Jesus began his reign in 1914. At that time, the master arrived. That Jesus' return would be unseen, I've already quoted 2 scriptures that prove that but also At Matthew 24:3 his disciples asked for a sign. If it would be for all to see, why ask for a sign. That would just ensure them that they wouldn't miss it. My comments about talking with people of other religions comes from my personal observations. I have and do freely have discussions with people of all religions, Christian and non without being reduced to judgemental and insulting remarks. You can look on any of my past posts and see that. However, it has been my personal experience that the most judgemental, insulting and aggressive people I've had religious conversations with have been those claiming to be Christian. Your accusations about the Society changing old writings I clearly refuted by pointing to all the private libraries where people around when the orginal was released have complete libraries today. It is virtually impossible to change those writings. I'm a personal witness to the fact that your statement about people going out is not true. I also refuted your accusations about us breaking up families and being the most depresses people. Absolutely false and I am a personal witness of this as I have attended meetings regularly in over 40 congregations here in the States and 1 as far away as Bangkok, Thailand. I showed you and can give you exact scriptures that Jesus meaning was hidden from the apostles when he was on earth and revealed to them later by holy spirit. Showing that God gradually reveals truths to his people. So what's left? |
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Date: 3/1/2004 12:01:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
2 Peter 2:20 "For you know this first that no prophecy of Scripture springs from ANY private interpretation, 21-For prophecy was at no time brought by man's will but men spoke as they were borne along by holy spirit" the prophets spoke through God so their interpretation was from God not from them. What does someone telling people that they were indeed speaking from God when they wrote what they did have to do with someone interpreting what they said? |
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Date: 3/1/2004 12:02:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Matthew 24:45 it's a parable try figuring out what it means, it's not literal. |
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Date: 3/1/2004 12:02:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Hebrews 1:1&2 "God who LONG AGO spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things and through which he made the systems of things." A prophet a person who speaks by divine inspiration, your Church claims that it speaks from God and only they have God speaking through them which then makes them claim to be a prophet because they claim to be speaking through divine inspiration so you contradict yourself with that one. |
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Date: 3/1/2004 12:02:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Acts 1:8 You contradict yourself once again, because go further on in that passage and Acts 1:11 says This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven. He ascended to heaven before their eyes yet you claim he came back invisibly which again you contradict yourself. |
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Date: 3/1/2004 12:03:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
You being a personal witness doesn't make it true when there's data that refutes what you say. The world does not revolve around you. Your experience does not refute the rest of the Jehovah Witnesses that said what they did where they got the actual reports from. There's thousands upon thousands of documented court cases. That's as bad as the Catholics at the top covering up and defending their child molesting priests, and there's not a Church in this world that disgusts me more than the Catholic Church. I already gave you verses that said how Jesus would appear, and far more then two. You cannot take a line out of context to prove your point, you must take it within its intended meaning. Read the entire Bible from first page to last and then get back to me because at this point if you're unwilling to do so and are just going to continue to take things out of context it's pointless. When you go about proving something to be right it is right because you cannot disprove it, unlike how you do it by reading something someone writes for you and then looking up a verse or a line and then going oh yeah that's what it meant. That's the incorrect way to prove anything to be true. If you'd like to actually read the Bible I'd be more than happy to discuss it. But I will never go against what God and the Bible says, sorry the Watchtower is not God's word, they have already proven time and time again they are not and only turn God into a mockery with the things they say. There is more than enough proof in the Bible that shows why the Watchtower is not of God, actually read the Bible and you'll find it. |
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Date: 3/1/2004 2:58:00 PM
From Authorid: 31145
A person's own eye-witness testimony is very important. God used that form of witness in all the books of the Bible. Some of the accusations you made against Jehovah's modern day organization I could personally refute and proved otherwise on the basis of what I have personally seen. You on the other hand produced no evidence at all proving your accusation that Jehovah's Witnesses break up families...etc. A prophet is only a prophet if producing new information. To understand prophecies already written and accurately pinpoint times is not the act of a prophet. We do however, do a prophet-like work in that we declare beforehand events based on accurately understanding Bible texts ALREADY WRITTEN. For example, in the early 40's a talk at a nation-wide assembly accurately foretold the appearance of the United Nations based on a new understanding of the prophecy at Rev.17:8. It was not new information, just a new understanding of a prophecy already written. That this is exactly how Jehovah reveals things gradually to his people can be clearly seen by considering Bible examples. At Daniel 8:15 we are told that Daniel sought to understand the visions he was given but in verse 17 the angel tells him that that prophecy is for the time of the end. So even Daniel was not enlightened because it was not time for the information to be revealed. At Daniel 12: 4 the angel tells Daniel that the words of Daniel will be "secret" until the time of the end. Again showing that at the proper time truth would be revealed. Interestingly, it was a new understanding of that very book that gave the Int'l Bible Students the insight about 1914 and the prophecy about Jesus beginning his rule. The Bible is very clear about what would happen at that time. Most people are familiar with the 4 horseman in Revelation, what they don't stop to realize is that the rider of the first horse has his crown. The next horse was the red horse of war throughout the earth and what took place in 1914? WORLD WAR I!! Another Bible example of this is at Mark 9:31 & 32. Jesus was teaching them but they were not able to grasp the meaning. Later their minds were opened because it was time for them to understand Luke 24:44 & 45 Jesus refers to the things he had taught them when he had been with them and as verse 45 says "Then he opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the scriptures." So as the time is right, Jesus opens up the minds of his true followers to greater understanding. Which is exactly how it has been for his modern-day organization. |
Date: 3/1/2004 3:38:00 PM
From Authorid: 35031
I just got my ID back! Now I can comment under my own id. One thing I just noticed in your comment that I didn't respond to as Amerelaflor was the point I was trying to make about how we talk to people of all religions. Most religions believe that they are not personally responsible for preaching the good news and yet history and the Bible itself prove that in the early congregation all participated. At Acts 2 the entire congregation received the pouring out of holy spirit and began teaching in various languages. Secular hisorians and quotations from even the enemies of the first century Christians testify that all were zealous proclaimers. I've asked people of several different religions why, if they believed they had true knowledge were they not at my door and at the very least why would they not want to convince me. Paul said that we should always be ready to make a defense of our beliefs to any who ask. Instead most people are quick to say how they have their own religion and that's that.  |
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Date: 3/1/2004 3:56:00 PM
From Authorid: 35031
Jehovah has ALWAYS had a channel that he used to represent him. What happened to all that reasoned that Noah, for example wasn't the only channel of God's guidance? Abraham and later Moses, too. Do you remember what happened when Korah and 250 of the chieftains of the Levites decided that Moses was not the only channel that Jehovah was using at that time? Jehovah proved miraculously that they were wrong. After Moses came the Judges along with prophets and then Kings. Later in the early Christian congregation it was the older men and apostles. Remember how it was the older men who decided how the issue of circumcision would be handled at Acts 15? Today's modern day organization is set up exactly like that of the early congregation and is directed by the Bible not men. Never is one point made without the reference to the Bible principal or law that applies. For example, in recent years (since 1973) an application of the scriptures to keep our "vessal" clean and a further application of the command to love thy neighbor was understood to apply to smoking. At that time it was understood that no BAPTIZED witness could claim love of neighbor and smoke and certainly would not be clean. At that time little was known about second-hand smoke and the detrimental affect it would have. As that information became well know by all, Jehovah's Witnesses who had smoked up until that time(1973)had already been almost 20 years in abstinence. The Bible principal was applied and saved many people's lives. Blood transfusions is another classic example. |
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Date: 3/1/2004 4:25:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Congrats on getting your account back lol. Right there is where one of my problems lies. What you said about the prediction about the United Nations, I really hope you don't believe that since it had a predecessor the League of Nations that formed in 1919 and talks of the UN were around for years before it was finally formed. You're cut off from the world and therefore you think that predictions and "new light" are teachings of your organization when in fact they're rip offs from people. Then when a JW stumbles across something and realizes they were lied to and question it they get in trouble and shunned, I'm sorry I could never in my heart do the things you people do to your so called brothers and sisters and even to your own families. I can't even post the links I'd like to on here about destroying families and the abuse that goes on because they're not g rated, that's how disgusting some of the things that go on are. But you'll just sweep all allegations under the rug as being a lie or apostate because the truth of the matter would be too hard. Sorry an organization that keeps its members from the world so that they don't find out the truth about them and then feed them "new light" that they rip off of other churches and books is not God's faithful and discreet slave. God has always had a channel, very correct it's just not yours. |
Date: 3/1/2004 4:26:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
The poisons that produce the impulse to commit suicide, murder, or steal are in the blood. Moral insanity, sexual perversions, repression, inferiority complexes, petty crimes - these often follow in the wake of blood transfusion." {WT Sep 1 1961 564} Any organization assinine enough to make that comment, are complete idiots and are not speaking from God.
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Date: 3/1/2004 4:26:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
You're still assuming that you're the only ones who spread the word, and that's not true. There are other Churches and demominations that also spread the word. Your teachings are not unique to you, your organization is behind in actuality and I don't think God's true organization would be years behind. In 1973 the effects of second hand smoke had appeared in medical journals for years. The blood transfusions don't get me started on that one, one look at Bulgaria and your religion for just one example. In a few years all blood transfusion will be allowed anyone under "new light" as they've been leading up to it for years,and if I had a family member who died because they didn't have a blood transfusion I'd be pretty mad that it took so long God's supposed organization so long to know what the world already knew. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 6:51:00 AM
From Authorid: 35031
Jehovah's Witnesses did not predict the appearance of the UN, the Bible did over 1500 years ago. Just before it's birth, the understanding of the prophecy came to light. "Food at the proper time" is what it said we would get. Whether or not there was any evidence about second hand smoke, the step of making it a desfellowshipping offense was the motivation for millions to stop smoking. I was one of them. I later started to smoke again and was given chance after chance to quit. The elders were very loving and did everything they could to help me make the right choice and live up to the dedication I had made. (No Jehovah's Witness is baptized until they have completed a complete study program and can answer 80 Bible questions. In this way no one that isn't ready for that serious commitment will make it because they will be expected to live up to it. Everyone who gets baptized is thoroughly aware of the disfellowshipping arrangement for unrepentent serious sin) No one but baptized Witnesses are disfellowshipped for serious sins. This is a BIBLE command. At 1 Corinthians 5:11 "But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a BROTHER that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man" and verse 13 "..Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." Interestingly, the case Paul was referring to was a man who had begun an affair with his own father's wife. The putting out of the congregation is a discipline that will motivate an honest-hearted individual to change a bad course while also protecting the congregation from developing that bad habit. That was the very result for that 1st century man, for within that very year Paul wrote in his next letter 2 Corinthians 2:5-7 "Now if anyone has caused sadness, he has saddened, not me, but all of you to an extent-not to be too harsh in what I say. This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, so that, on the contrary now, you should kindly forgive and comfort him, that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad. Therefore I exhort you to confirm your love for him". And that's how it was for me. After being disfellowshipped for 2 years, I wrote the congregation a letter and 2 elders came to see me. They set up a Bible study with me that even included their wives. They visited me and encouraged me and helped me stop smoking again and 2 months later I was reinstated. INterestingly, the letter I wrote was to ask for someone to come by and answer my husband's Bible questions. In the letter I told them that I was disfellowshipped and considered myself to be more or less a hopeless case because in the 2 years I had tried several times to quit smoking and hadn't been able to stop. When they came, their main concern was me. I'll never forget that. I was in my 20's then, I'll turn 50 this year. Can you imagine where I would be if I had been smoking all those years. I can. Everyone of my father's family died of cancer. Obedience protected me and my children who have lived in a smoke-free environment. Disfellowshipping is a very loving discipline that reaches right hearted individuals and protects innocent ones in the congregation from the bad affect of serious sin. There are 4 people I know currently who have been disfellowshipped and reinstated in the past 5 years and they express the same feelings I did. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 7:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 35031
Now, blood transfusions. The reason Jehovah's Witnesses abstain from blood is because that is exactly what the Bible tells us to do at Acts 15:20. Blood is holy in God's eyes because the life (soul according to King James marginal definition of "life" at Genesis 9:4)is in the blood. Remember how Able's blood called out to God? Certainly no one who was ordered by their physician to abstain from alcohol would reason that while they couldn't drink it, they could inject it. Abstain means abstain. Since Jehovah's Witnesses have taken such a stand much has come to light about the adverse affects of a blook transfusion. Certainly the transmitting of many diseases and allergies is definitely well proven, but many don't know that for up to a year after, their immune system is suppressed to varying degrees because the body reacts to a transfusion as it does to a transplant. A very famous heart surgeon in Houston, Denton Cooley observed the amazing recovery of Jehovah's witnesses after open-heart surgery and began to operate bloodlessly on all his patients. My father was a patient in that hospital and to this day Jehovah's Witnesses are given great treatment there because of him. Most people do not know that there are over 200 blood substitutes that have no side affects. One brother I personally knew in Arlington, Tx. was stabbed in the heart by a glass fragment in an explosion. His blood count went below 2 and blood substitutes kept his veins open until his body could replenish itself. One sister I knew in Laurel Md. experienced a drop to level 2 in surgery and had the same result. People hear negative stories but no one hears of the amazing stories that happen every day. But setting aside all that, the reason for taking the stand we do is the Bible command. Remember the 3 young Hebrew's remembered by their Babylonian assigned names Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego? (Daniel Chp.3) They were in their teens yet stood firmly and were willing to die rather than disobey God's law on worshipping idols. In this country and others young men are praised for laying down their lives in battle for causes deemed worthy by the governments they are under. What more worthy cause than that deemed worthy by God Almighty himself? |
Date: 3/2/2004 10:00:00 AM
From Authorid: 35031
I found the quotation you mentioned and as I figured, it was a quotation not of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society but of a Dr. from a book he'd written. That you can see this for yourself I have copied the paragraph and all surrounding information so you could also see the context.:
*** w61 9/15 pp. 563-564 Using Life in Harmony with the Will of God ***
PERSONALITY INFLUENCED
15 Those who are more inclined to rest their confidence in the learning of men than in the wisdom of God may feel that the care exercised in the selection of blood donors makes it possible to avoid all these dangers. But consider the facts. It will probably shock you to learn that the blood of dead people is being transfused into the bodies of hospital patients, but reports from Russia and Spain show that it is exactly what is done there; and even in the United States of America experiments have been conducted with transfusion of cadaver blood! Of course, that probably is not the practice in your community. But the magazine Time as of May 26, 1961, reports the case of a 49-year-old woman in the Pontiac General Hospital who was given two pints of blood from the cadaver of a 12-year-old boy who had drowned in a nearby lake and who had been dead from two and a half to three hours. Also, that as long ago as 1935 a doctor in a Chicago suburb had used a technique like that of the Russians, and that this American doctor accounted for about thirty-five cadaver-blood transfusions in two years. Perhaps the donor is one’s own living relative, a reputable, clean-living individual. Does that assure safety? No; it will not remove the danger of a reaction due to incompatibility; nor does it guarantee that the individual may not be the carrier of some disease, perhaps even unknown to himself. In most cases, however, one who receives blood has no idea who the donor is. Some of it may come from healthy persons; some from alcoholics and degenerates. Criminals in jail are given the opportunity to donate their blood. For example, the New York Times of April 6, 1961, reported: “Inmates of Sing Sing Prison at Ossining will give blood to the Red Cross today.” A commendable act? Perhaps not as beneficial to their fellow men as the community is led to believe.
16 When the Israelites were preparing to enter the Promised Land, Jehovah moved Moses to repeat to them his law forbidding the consumption of blood. As recorded at Deuteronomy 12:25, he said: “You must not eat it, in order that it may go well with you and your sons after you, because you will do what is right in Jehovah’s eyes.” An edition of the Pentateuch edited by J. H. Hertz has a footnote on that expression “that it may go well with you,” which says: “Ibn Ezra suggests that the use of blood would have a demoralising effect upon the moral and physical nature, and pass on a hereditary taint to future generations.” The point is an interesting one, and that it may apply in the matter of blood transfusions is testified to by medical doctors. For example, in his book Who Is Your Doctor and Why? Doctor Alonzo Jay Shadman says: “The blood in any person is in reality the person himself. It contains all the peculiarities of the individual from whence it comes. This includes hereditary taints, disease susceptibilities, poisons due to personal living, eating and drinking habits. . . . The poisons that produce the impulse to commit suicide, murder, or steal are in the blood.” And Dr. Américo Valério, Brazilian doctor and surgeon for over forty years, agrees. “Moral insanity, sexual perversions, repression, inferiority complexes, petty crimes—these often follow in the wake of blood transfusion,” he says. Yet it is acknowledged in the public press that organizations whose blood supply is considered reliable obtain blood for transfusion from criminals who are known to have such characteristics. Certainly no one who is trying to depart from the works of the flesh and use his life in the way that God directs through his Word is going to lay himself open to such a ruinous future.—Rom. 12:2; Eph. 4:22-24.
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Date: 3/2/2004 1:50:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
1 Corinthians 5:11 yes people were disfellowshipped from the Church and only the Church. They were not shunned they were not ignored they were still allowed to most people's houses. The only houses they were not allowed into were one's when they were holding services because not all places had places to hold services and so used people's houses. They didn't want people to think that the disfellowshipped were still allowed to worship with them because that was the whole of the discipline that they were removed from studying and worshipping God with them. Can disfellowshipped people still attend services? I know for a fact they can. Your organization's stance is not the way the early Church worked. They were expelled from the Church and then treated the same way as everyone else outside the Church. Which is not that people were evil. 1Cor 12-13 The people in the Church were never to judge those outside. They associated freely with them, ate dinner with them, worked with them, had them as friends, invited them to their houses etc. How many people in your organization haven't talked to their own family members in years? No one was shunned outside of Church services, so your organization doesn't even have that right. Why do you keep taking lines out of context to try to prove your point? The Bible is a whole book, one line does not change the meaning. You cannot take a few lines to twist them to what you believe that's not how it works. Now you change your tune again, first it was evidence even though that wasn't true, so now it was for millions to stop smoking. When it was made a punishable offence how many members were there in the organization and how many were people who smoked, not millions, did some benefit though, I'm sure they did and you're right that's not a bad thing. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 1:51:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Just before it's birth the prophecy came to light, what light? Light that people knew long before your Church? And what a joke the UN and the Watchtower have been. Your society had preached since the inception of the UN that it was the Scarlet Beast, yet it had a 10 year relationship with the "beast" without its members knowledge. It applied for and was accepted as a non government organization with the UN as are 1500 other non government organizations. Then when it came to light because people wanted to know why the UN allowed membership to it the JW's themselves heard about it and many who asked elders about it were called apostates. In order to qualify for membership status an organization must show that they share the ideals of the charter, operate on a non-profit basis, "demonstrate interest in UN issues and proven ability to reach large or specialized audiences" and have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programs about UN activities. It was not until two days after the article appeared that the watchtower pulled it's membership. Why would God's organization belong to the "beast"? |
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Date: 3/2/2004 1:52:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Why if it's against the Bible and that's the only reason you obstain do you use other things besides the Bible to influence your decisions? And you use shaman and other non Christian people to try to prove your point? Do you really believe the stuff they feed you? I honestly cannot believe that people buy this stuff. By nature we are sinners, we do not sin because of what's in our blood. |
Date: 3/2/2004 1:52:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
The five known members of the committee were: Nathan H. Knorr, then President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society; Frederick W. Franz; Albert D. Schroeder; George Gangas; and Milton Henschel. All five men have been members of the Jehovah's Witnesses' Governing Body. Of these men, Franz alone is said to have had a University education, and even he dropped out after his second year. None of the members was a qualified Biblical language scholar. Although Franz claimed under oath to be able to read both Hebrew and Greek, he was not able, when pressed in court, to translate from Hebrew a passage which scholars stated should give no difficulty to a second year Hebrew student.
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Date: 3/2/2004 1:52:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
The translation of the New Testament is evidence of the presence in the movement of scholars qualified to deal intelligently with the many problems of Biblical translation. This translation, as J. Carter Swain observes, has its peculiarities and its excellences. All in all, it would seem that a reconsideration of the challenge of this movement to the historical churches is in order. Matt. 5:9 One could question why the translators have not stayed closer to the original meaning, as do most translators. In not a few instances the New World Translation contains passages which must be considered as `theological translations.' This fact is particularly evident in those passages which express or imply the deity of Jesus Christ. "I have been" in John 8:58, pointing out that "on grammatical grounds alone, the rendering cannot be justified. At the time of his review McCoy was a graduate of Andover Newton Seminary (associated with the Baptist Church and the United Churches of Christ) holding the degrees of Bachelor of Divinity (1955) from the Boston University School of Theology, and Master of Sacred Theology from Andover Newton and was not a recognized greek scholar and his overall review of the NWT was not really positive. |
Date: 3/2/2004 1:52:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Just like with the so called approval of the NWT they take a quote out of context such as this "The translation of the New Testament is evidence of the presence in the movement of scholars qualified to deal intelligently with the many problems of Biblical translation."
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Date: 3/2/2004 1:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Anthony Hoekema "Their New World Translation of the Bible is by no means an objective rendering of the sacred text into modern English, but is a biased translation in which many of the peculiar teachings of the Watchtower Society are smuggled into the text of the Bible itself." |
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Date: 3/2/2004 1:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
Walter Martin and Norman Klann "Once it is perceived that Jehovah's Witnesses are only interested in what they can make the scriptures say, and not in what the Holy Spirit has already perfectly revealed, then the careful student will reject entirely Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower translation." |
Date: 3/2/2004 1:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
H. H. Rowley, an eminent Old Testament scholar from England "The translation is marked by a wooden literalism which will only exasperate any intelligent reader -if such it finds -and instead of showing reverence for the Bible which the translators profess, it is an insult to the Word of God.... "...this volume is a shining example of how the Bible should not be translated."
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Date: 3/2/2004 1:53:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"Bruce M. Metzger, Professor of New Testament Language and Literature at Princeton Theological Seminary, one of the world's leading authorities on the Greek language, and recognized as such by the Jehovah's Witnesses who quote him on occasion in a favorable way, wrote an article in 1950 pointing out the errors in many Christological passages in the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures." |
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Date: 3/2/2004 1:54:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
As far as you saying you're an eyewitness so that makes it reliable, I've also been an eyewitness to how "happy and loving" JW's are among each other. I'll give you two examples of the love I've seen. I went to school and grew up with a JW. He was not allowed to have anything to do with any non JW's not even go to their house or talk on the phone. He had an older sister and a younger brother. The mother was an alcoholic and abusive. The father was an elder in the Church and also abusive. One time the father had another elder come over who duct taped all three to chairs with their bare skin because one was caught smoking a cigarette. They kept them taped up for two hours while they yelled at them, then ripped the tape off of their skins. They came to school bruised all the time. They were miserable. The oldest ended up getting married a few weeks after highschool to escape her homelife only to end up with an abusive husband who beat her all the time. He even beat her when she was pregnant. She tried to escape from him but because she was disfellowshipped no one was allowed to help her and she really didn't know anyone outside the organization. She ended up in the hospital from being beaten so bad, no one came to see her and no one not even her family members took her kids for her while she was in the hospital recovering or helped when she got out. People outside your organization were the ones who got her help. The youngest brother not too long ago got sentenced to 8 years in prison for armed robbery before that at the age of 16 he was living on the streets because he was kicked out of his house because he didn't want to be a JW. The middle one, my friend is doing great because someone took him in outside of your organization when he was kicked out and provided a home for him while he's in college. |
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Date: 3/2/2004 1:54:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 36704
"Few scholars, Christian or otherwise, feel they can condemn the New World Translation out of hand. Their difficulties are not with the sincerity of the translation committee, but with certain aspects of the grammar used, and with the noticeable theological bias in the work. This comes out most strongly in the Christological (i.e., dealing with the person of Christ) passages. This is why comments relating to the Old Testament (or Hebrew Scriptures) are limited almost entirely to the quality of the grammar. The fact is that scholars, both Christian and non-Christians, have roundly attacked the scholarship of the New World Translation which pushes a particular theological stance, and which has influenced the lives of millions around the world. Jehovah's Witnesses who are concerned for their own eternal life, as well as that of others, and who wish to worship the living and true God as He is revealed in the pages of His Word, will wish to give consideration to these facts, and ask themselves why it is that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society needs to show in its literature quotes purporting to supp |
