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The ORIGIN of the Phrase "Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner"

  Author:  24924  Category:(Human Interest) Created:(12/13/2006 3:12:00 PM)
This post has been Viewed (2131 times)

Many times we have heard the phrase: "Hate the Sin; Love the Sinner", but most people do not know where it came from.

Most often this quotation is misused to discriminate against homosexuals; and is usually spouted as if it had Christian origins.

These words came from Mahatma Ghandi in the early 20th century as he fought against the unjust system of apartheid in South Africa.

It is ironic and offensive to hear anyone use this quotation to justify discrimination against an entire class of people.

A better message to keep in mind when tempted to condemn an entire group of people actually is from Jesus Christ:

"JUDGE NOT, THAT YE BE NOT JUDGED".

The now infamous Rev. Ted Haggard would have done well to heed these words.

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Replies:      
Date: 12/13/2006 3:31:00 PM  From Authorid: 63194    Oh dear Cathy - This will rock somes worlds... and now they wont have anything to base their pointless arguements on.  
Date: 12/13/2006 8:09:00 PM  From Authorid: 63194    Come people!  
Date: 12/13/2006 8:09:00 PM  From Authorid: 63194    Nobody going to come and play? What are you at?  
Date: 12/13/2006 8:35:00 PM  From Authorid: 55967    I've always thought it to be a great phrase, since I thought of the idea behind it myself a long, long time ago.  
Date: 12/13/2006 8:38:00 PM  From Authorid: 8555    I still think it has good meaning....would I hate someone who's a sinner? No because we are all sinners.  
Date: 12/13/2006 8:38:00 PM  From Authorid: 55967    But then, a lot of people did.  
Date: 12/13/2006 8:43:00 PM  From Authorid: 52155    ummm, You didn't just judge Rev Ted Haggard now did you? naaaa, of course you didn't...  
Date: 12/13/2006 8:45:00 PM  From Authorid: 55967    I agree, 8555. I always knew the quote wasn't from the Bible, but the meaning is there. I don't see anything wrong with using it in other areas of life just because Ghandi created it for the situation in South Africa.  
Date: 12/13/2006 8:46:00 PM  From Authorid: 52155    "It is ironic and offensive to hear anyone use this quotation to justify discrimination against an entire class of people." Actually, I think the phrase, as I hear it, does not give excuse to discriminate against everyone. But instead means to love everyone and treat everyone equally, now matter what lifestyle choice they may make that you may disagree with..  
Date: 12/13/2006 8:50:00 PM  From Authorid: 55967    Dead on, Eddo.  
Date: 12/13/2006 8:50:00 PM  From Authorid: 63192    I think that this phrase is being blown completely out of proportion. Jesus Christ made it very clear that sin was not to be boosted about or favored but that we should still love those who sin. Which is everyone. This phrase isn't meant to be discriminating but to say that even when we disagree with someone's actions to love them anyway. What is discriminating about that? Isn't it being a little judgemental on the opposite side to say those who use this phrase are being discriminating?  
Date: 12/13/2006 8:50:00 PM  From Authorid: 52155    and really, isn't this phrase exemplify the choices Jesus portrayed in the Bible? The adulterous woman at the well comes to mind. Jesus loved her and kept her from being attacked, but told her to leave her live of sin behind. He loved the sinner, but hated the sin.  
Date: 12/13/2006 9:15:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    Eddo, I am not about to get into a long discussion on "sin"; what it IS to the god believers. You say I am judging Haggard? 1st of all: I don't believe homosexuality is a "sin". YOU do. Haggard believes it is a sin; or rather he preached against it all over the place. HE was sitting in judgement of homosexuals. MY judgment is his HYPOCRISY; his living a double life; his disgust and discrimination for gays while at the same time doing that which he himself judged to be sinful, immoral and all that. 2nd of all: I do not believe there is anything that is a "sin". I believe in "FIRST, DO NO HARM". If something is not harming anyone; not causing pain and suffering; not bothering anyone, then to each his own. I may not like it; may not be my cup of tea, but a person should be able to live their life as they wish with that which makes them happy. Now.....we all MUST make judgements, about lots of things. You have to. IF someone is speaking words about something; condemming something, but their words don't line up with their actions, then NO ONE should be a fool in taking their word for anything. I posted the "Do not judge" phrase which is addressing god believers because it is a better one than the "hate the sin....love the sinner" one. I am NOT a jesus believer.  
Date: 12/13/2006 9:21:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    The phrase IS discriminating. My own religious nutcase family treats me like dirt; lies about me; spreads rumors about me; refers to me as "satan" and then tells everyone in their CULT-like church that they "love" me! They say stupid stuff like: "We hate her living in sin" but "we love her soul" ; in other words, hate the sin, love the sinner. What is MY "sin" to these ignorants? Ha! My "sin" is that I don't believe in their god. That is it. That is ALL they have on me. MY life is infinitely more moral; more peaceful, and more loving and kind and giving, than theirs ever was. They do not KNOW me at all. They shun me; and they FEAR me.  
Date: 12/13/2006 9:30:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    Eddo, that "love everyone equally", "love thy neighbor" is a complete and utter smokescreen for the god believers. What the REALITY IS, is that it is mostly lip service. What they really mean is: Love thy neighbor IF.....that neighbor is a god believer and believes as they do. Love him/her IF they are like them; otherwise, shun them, vote for politicians who will introduce legislation that will discriminate against them; all the while claiming they are merely doing what god says or god's words, etc. etc. I'm not pulling this out of you know where either. It is many years of observation, m'deres. Many years.  
Date: 12/13/2006 9:39:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    Let's get back to Ghandi, please. In South Africa, Blacks were horribly treated and discriminated against. Go study up on apartheid in South Africa. Look back in American history and you will see how slavery was and many slave owners were white, God believing, Bible quoting tyrants. Slavery is condoned in the Bible. Your usage of the "Love the sin, hate the sinner" and

"love everyone and treat everyone equally, no matter what lifestyle " WORDS.....rings hollow. It means nothing....to a reasoning, logical, sane man.
  
Date: 12/13/2006 9:47:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    IF the words do not align with the actions, then by golly I (as well as any reasonable, thinking human being) WILL sit in judgement. I will tell you to eat those words; and you can go right on to the next perhaps gullible sap. I've studied the Bible, up one end and down the other, front to back, many times. The Bible portrays the christian god as a egotistical, petulant, tyrranical and evil monster. The WORDS are allllll there. WORDS that don't match up with the actions of its followers. The words of its followers do not match up with this god's actions either.  
Date: 12/13/2006 9:47:00 PM  From Authorid: 63192    and yet your ranting and raving does not seem to help your argument on logic. All, I am saying is if you at least calm down and realize that not all Christians are out to get you maybe just maybe you'd realize that regardless of the origin of that statement it does not hold the same meaning for everyone. I am in no way prejudice and as a Catholic have gotten prejudice from Protestants just as much as you have gotten it for not being a Christian. Do, I think all Protestants hate my guts, no. Just like all people who use this statement do not use it in the light you are putting it under. Just because a thing has a certian origin does not mean that origin always sticks in meaning for everyone. For one second maybe you consider we aren't the ones judging but maybe you are judging us just because of the faith we choose to follow and just because we have something we strongly believe in instead of strongly deny.  
Date: 12/13/2006 9:51:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    Excuuuse me, how is my replies seen as "ranting and raving"? "Calm down"??? Huh? oh dear me....here we go with the "Not everyone..." argument. ALRIGHT....not everyone, but MOST.....in my years of observation. OK. There; I put the disclaimer. NOT ALL.  
Date: 12/13/2006 9:54:00 PM  From Authorid: 63192    Also, if you read the Bible a little more closely maybe you'd see that in the Old Testament Moses made alot of those laws to appease the evil hearts of humans not of an evil God. It was something that had to be done until God thru the Son could teach the world of love and forgivness. All throughout the books of Romans it talks about loving each other regardless of differences. That loving one another is truely what fulfills the Law. Not everything is black and white. Some things have to be looked at a little deeper and considering you do not know my stance on everything based on every circumstance please do treat me with the same treatment you would like to be treated: to not be Judged for who I am just because of the name I carry. Why, are people wrong for trying to help you also? Maybe you don't believe what they do but maybe they have been so touch by their faith they wish you could be touched by it too.  
Date: 12/13/2006 9:55:00 PM  From Authorid: 63192    *book  
Date: 12/13/2006 9:55:00 PM  From Authorid: 63192    *touched  
Date: 12/13/2006 10:01:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    Get this straight, Shortie: I do not DENY that there is a god. I just simply do not believe. I am WITHOUT belief. When someone denies something; is merely in denial, then they at least have to believe something exist in order to deny it. I can't possibly deny that which I don't believe exist. I can't believe in something that I don't believe exist either. Maybe this will help you understand: I do not deny that little green leprechauns live in the forest. I do not believe they exist. IF anyone believes they exist, horray for them; what ever makes you happy. But, if you want to convince ME of their existence, then you gotta come up with the evidence, because I'm not gonna take just yer word for it. Especially , if you tell me that IF I don't, I will suffer for eternity.  
Date: 12/13/2006 10:07:00 PM  From Authorid: 8555    Your just looking for a fight, I think you need a hobby or something lol. J/K it seems like this phrases holds something bad for you, just because of how your family uses it. Mot likely I'll keep saying this because of how I feel feel it means. Jesus loved everyone, even all of us sinners...  
Date: 12/13/2006 10:08:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    Shortie, dearheart, you're 19 yrs old. Barely getting started, really; in life. To get into a long discussion on these things is an impossibility at this time; and would only go around in circles. We are at VAST different stages; different experiences, different levels. I hope you don't think I'm just ignoring you and what you have said. I just simply know from experience that it will serve no purpose . Thank you, and goodnight. I have an early appointment at the hospital for my friend who is suffering this dreadful cancer.  
Date: 12/13/2006 10:09:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    "looking for a fight"? Amusing....positively amusing....  
Date: 12/13/2006 10:13:00 PM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    Please, I urge anyone to go to this post and read my replies regarding the subject of homosexuality, and the BIBLE scriptures.
http://unsolvedmysteries.com/usm468024.html
  
Date: 12/13/2006 10:29:00 PM  From Authorid: 63192    you know something just because I am 19 does not mean I am ignorant. I have had experiences that even people your age couldn't imagin going thru and I am a very intelligent and open-minded person. It is not always your age that makes you intelligent thinker but what you do with the knowledge you have. My uncle is suffering from cancer as well and you have my condolences. True ignorance "dearheart" is not in how many years you have but in the years in which you waste. Don't go talking to me as if I don't know how the world works some people live their whole lives and never learn one dang thing. So, you know from experience huh? I'm not your average 19 year old and very mature for my age. Also, if you're gonna make a controversial post expect posts from all people who feel they have a viewpoint. Green Leprechauns? Think of a better euphemism. I find it amusing that my age has allowed you to not discuss this argument with me. That truely is being judgmental which is what you were trying to argue agaist in the first place. I am not worried. I know who I truely am and what I am worthy of.  
Date: 12/13/2006 11:10:00 PM  ( Admin-Z )   Can we all calm down here lol!!it's a human interest post, not a debate lol!
Date: 12/14/2006 12:21:00 AM  From Authorid: 3125    The concept of "Love the sinner but hate the sin" or "Love people but hate sin" is taught in the Bible. Matt 5:43-46 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.  
Date: 12/14/2006 12:22:00 AM  From Authorid: 3125    "and they FEAR me" I just do not get it as to WHY they fear you?? What could they possibly be afraid of?  
Date: 12/14/2006 4:05:00 AM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    Good morning, Rusure. I just woke up because the care center called at 4:45 a.m. saying Lou had fell. She can't walk but that doesn't stop her from trying. She's ok; nothing was broken. Anyway, you ask why my family fears me? Well, I used to ask that; I used to be stymied by it. I've now accepted it ; that which I always suspected. You see, I'm all about being straight up; being myself; conducting myself and speaking honestly. It would be a rare occasion whenever I would even see any of them, but when I did, I'd always bring up that which they didn't want to talk about; namely: some lie they had told about me (believe me, there are some doozies). Never would they admit it; never would they ever apologize. Just deny and run. And then, get this: They'd run back to the others and tell yet more lies about how I "jumped on them" and said things I clearly did not say. They also fear me because they know darn well that "I KNOW" (quotations & caps for emphasis) they're lying hypocrites! They gossip; spread lies, condemn, take up for each other and live in their own little cocoon, and live in fear that someone might find out about their lies (liars have to tell more lies to support and protect themselves). They know they can get away with it because of the 640 miles in between, and because they isolate themselves by avoiding me if I do come in to town, unlisted numbers, and just the fact that there is strength in numbers. Never would any of them ever consider that there is TWO sides to everything. They believe each other; feed off each others lies; and afterall for gawds sake, Christians would never lie, right? It makes me sick to see this huge united front; this facade they put forth. Hardly anyone around there, neighbors , non family, can see and or understand why I am so feared and shunned. They can't believe the stuff they hear about me . I get along great with them, and the neighbors are always happy to see me when I come into town. If they ever do say anything to members of my family (especially my older sis, the ringleader) they are told: "You just don't know her like I do". And of course, followed by the "we love her; she's just a sinner girl" and they tell everyone how they are "praying for her".  
Date: 12/14/2006 4:10:00 AM  From Authorid: 27403    How did I miss this post yesterday? I have never found the phrase "Hate the sin, Love the sinner" as offensive. Though I did not know it was coinedby Ghandi! Love and Light  
Date: 12/14/2006 4:28:00 AM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    Lightworker, the CONCEPT is been around for a lot longer, but the exact words of this phrase is from Ghandi.

Ghandi did say that in his autobiography, but Augustine said it about 1500 years earlier.

This is the famous quote:
"With love for mankind and hatred of sins."

The translation that I have words it a little differently:
"Moreover, what I have now said in regard to abstaining from wanton looks should be carefully observed, with due love for the persons and hatred of the sin, in observing, forbidding, reporting, proving, and punishing of all other faults."
  
Date: 12/14/2006 4:36:00 AM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    Regardless of the particular phrase or its origin. The concept to me is just not, in reality , followed; it is not done. Maybe by a very few people in all ACTUALITY. It just sounds good. The Augustine translation doesn't even make sense to me. You are supposed to observe, to forbid, to report, to prove and to punish......all the while "loving" the person? Pullleeeze. More meaningless , "sounds good" words I'd say. Think about it. Love someone who murders; who rapes and slaughters little children?? Bleh.
  
Date: 12/14/2006 4:49:00 AM  ( From Author ) From Authorid: 24924    The "hate the sin, love the sinner" is just another meaningless phrase the religious toss out there that makes them feel good ; another endless phrase they don't have to think about; a cover your butt kind of thing. It is as if they are stating that the "sin" exists independently of the person committing the "sin" An individual, once they are of an age to determine right from wrong, is the sum of his/her actions. Now,....If they are usually a good person, but they flub up; they screw up on occasion, why then would anyone be motivated to "hate" them anyhow? BUT....If they are usually a big-time , major screw up (robbery, murder, LIARS), why would you OR ANYONE "love" them, since they cannot be separated from their actions? Especially IF the "sinning" affects YOUR life personally; and there are certain things , certain actions that

are just plain unacceptable. Oh, I can pity someone; I can feel sorry for someone (my family) for the crap (the "sinning"they do but I sure don't go round condemming their dispicable actions while at the same time proclaiming how much I "Love" them either.

  
Date: 12/14/2006 6:22:00 AM  From Authorid: 52155    "The concept to me is just not, in reality, followed; it is not done." <-- That I can agree with. But that is not what your original post implied Thinker. and there are those that misuse it, but that does not mean that the phrase itself gives permission to discriminate against anyone.  
Date: 12/14/2006 6:24:00 AM  From Authorid: 52155    and yes Thinker, you are judging Haggard, right after quoting "JUDGE NOT, THAT YE BE NOT JUDGED". I agree with you about him, but that doesn't lessen that fact that you are indeed judging him.
  
Date: 12/14/2006 8:10:00 AM  From Authorid: 63194    Judgement should not be done with out basis though. Hypocrocy, IMO, is worthy of being recognized, which some may be considered a judgement rather than an observance. I believe its an observance to say that Haggard is a hypocritcal liar, and not a judgement. To say that a homosexual is a hypocritical liar is a judgement and not an obvservance unless indeed that homosexual is indeed lieing about something and being hypocritical about something (I think in one way or another all people may be hypocritical in some things, though some are more extreme than others - I am a hypocrite in the sense that I DO judge others who smoke.. I give alot of smokers heck for smoking... but you know what.. I sure light up once in a while, especially when I am under alot of stress)  
Date: 12/14/2006 8:11:00 AM  From Authorid: 63194    Basically, IMO, all decisions, opinions, thoughts - are judgements... its condemnation that I think we tend to confuse with judgement.  
Date: 12/14/2006 5:56:00 PM  From Authorid: 36967    Judge Not, that ye be not judge, that is taken from Matthew 7:1 that does not mean we can't judge at all, it just means that we are not to judge on our standards. 1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judges all things" This is not the Bible Contradicting itself, but it states that there are certain ways to judge and certains not to judge. If you call what we do discrimination, then you have NO CLUE what discrimination really is.  
Date: 12/14/2006 5:56:00 PM  From Authorid: 36967    Where did you get this info at.  
Date: 12/15/2006 8:12:00 AM  From Authorid: 63194    Drk, there are some people who express their views in ways that wouldnt really fall under what thinker is talking about. IF you express your views and try to stop the rights of others, then yes, it is discrimination. If however you do not live a lifestyle that you do not agree with, then you are expressing your views in a respectable way.  

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